The last one I wholeheartedly agree with. I was there with you when we had a massive amount of people coming in from another unrelated event close by that seriously interrupted the things that people were already working on. I knew a fair amount of these people and I like them (the party led to at least one person wanting to become a member though) but it was very disruptive to have an�unannounced�event with a fairly large crowd that seemingly appeared out of nowhere when people are already doing other activities.�<div>
<br></div><div><br></div><div>-Ani<br><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Christie Dudley <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:longobord@gmail.com">longobord@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">I think this discussion is an important one in many ways.� I think a lot of people might agree with me that when dealing with people like us it's probably not entirely safe to consider common sense in social situations to be universal.� Besides, I think our values are different enough from the mainstream that it is worth articulating them a little bit.<br>
<br>I think we could benefit from an exercise that's popular in project management: "Is/is not".� I'm not talking about hard and fast rules, more like setting expectations.� Basically, if we list what we expect the space is and what we expect the space to not be, then we'll all get along better.� Maybe we could add it to the wiki if people think it's a good idea.� I can start with my expectations:<br>
<br>
Noisebridge IS a space where interesting things happen.<br>
Noisebridge IS a space where people can drop in and work on projects.<br>Noisebridge IS a space where you can reasonably expect to hold a conversation without being interrupted.<br>Noisebridge IS NOT a space where you should have to wear headphones to keep from being bothered.<br>
Noisebridge IS NOT a library (although we have one!).� Noise and Noisebridge are not incompatible.<br>Noisebridge IS a space where you can hang out and talk to friends.<br>Noisebridge IS NOT a party space.� Parties interrupt other activites.<br>
<br>What do you think?<br><br>Christie<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 2:01 PM, Mitch Altman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:maltman23@hotmail.com" target="_blank">maltman23@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
One of the (several) explicit goals at the outset of Noisebridge was to have a space where people could come to hang out, to create a geek community space.� Lots of people don't have projects in mind that they want to play with or work on, and coming to a space where there are people already working and playing on projects�can be�a great inspiration and motivation for others.<br>
�<br>
�<br>
Balancing all of this has its challenges.� We certainly don't want a space where it is only allowed to work on projects without talking to one another.� And we don't simply want a�hangout space, where few people feel comfortable working and playing on their projects.� And I don't think we�want a space where everyone is wearing headphones and not open to communication with anyone else in the space. �It seems to me that hanging out and working and playing aren't mutually exclusive of one another.� We do need to remember to be excellent to one another.� To me that means respecting one another.� And respecting one another's boundaries.� For instance, if someone is busy playing or working on their project, I would hope that it would be fine to ask them if it's OK to ask them a question, or if it's OK to talk to them.� And I would also hope that it is fine to answer, nicely, "no."<br>
�<br>
�<br>
We do need to keep in mind that not all of us geeks have the greatest social skills.� So, if someone is seeming bothersome, it's�probably not�because they're purposely trying to be annoying.� If you're�feeling annoyed by someone in the space, it is up to you to�let them know (as obvious as it is to each of us when we're feeling annoyed,�others can't read our minds, so we have to let them know).� And it should be possible to do this while being excellent to one another.� No need to be mean or a jerk about it.� Like, maybe:� e.g., "I'm sorry, but I'm trying to get some work done, and can't talk now."� So far that's worked very well for me.� <br>
�<br>
�<br>
On the other hand, one of the reasons I love being at Noisebridge is to help others with their projects, or to inspire others to explore what they may want to work on or play with.� I realize that's not everyone's desire or role.� And we all have different desires for what we want out of Noisebridge.� I hope we can respect all of each others' desires and goals and roles.<br>
�<br>
�<br>
Mitch.<br>
�<br>
�<br>
�<br>
�<br>
--------------------<br>
<br>�<br>> Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 13:33:14 -0800<br>> From: <a href="mailto:quinn@quinnnorton.com" target="_blank">quinn@quinnnorton.com</a><br>> To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] noise at noisebridge<div><div></div><div><br>> <br>> <br>> this thread is getting very hackier than thou, which i find dissapointing<br>> <br>> On Sun, 1 Mar 2009, peter wrote:<br>
> <br>> > Re: Josh's comment.<br>> ><br>> > Thank you for reminding us all that this is meant to be a space<br>> > specifically for hacking projects. While I am not a great offender on<br>> > this front, I, at times, find myself treating noisebridge as a hangout<br>
> > space. We can all hang out anywhere! Let's try to keep a space<br>> > dedicated to hacking for hacking.<br>> ><br>> > Which is not to say that there is no place for socializing at<br>> > noisebridge, but srsly, let's try to focus on hacking at the hacking<br>
> > space, shall we :)<br>> ><br>> > Best,<br>> > Peter<br>> ><br>> > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Paul B�hm <<a href="mailto:paul@boehm.org" target="_blank">paul@boehm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> > > Well,<br>> > ><br>> > > personally i've managed to tell people clearly i don't want to listen<br>> > > to their bullshit - and that works.<br>> > > having to overhear nonsense is hard, but headphones work.<br>
> > ><br>> > > however i'm worried that if we have too much nonsense-talking people here, then<br>> > > only people with a very high tolerance for nonsense and bullshit will<br>> > > stick around.<br>
> > ><br>> > > this is especially true since the people i'm thinking about, almost<br>> > > hunt after newcomers, who are too polite to verbalize that after 15<br>> > > minutes of nonsense they are feeling really uncomfortable.<br>
> > ><br>> > > paul<br>> > ><br>> > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 7:18 PM, Josh Myer <<a href="mailto:josh@joshisanerd.com" target="_blank">josh@joshisanerd.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 06:54:36PM -0800, Paul B�hm wrote:<br>
> > >>> ok, my brain is about to explode - there's people here at nb who<br>> > >>> constantly babble nonsense because they are attention starved<br>> > >>> this alienates newcomers (since they haven't learned to ignore these<br>
> > >>> people yet) and makes me want to avoid noisebridge<br>> > >>><br>> > >>> opinions on this?<br>> > >><br>> > >> I totally agree with the frustration, and feel it acutely. �As for<br>
> > >> fixes: Wear headphones? �Set expectations that you're not someone<br>> > >> who's going to just listen? �These two strategies have served me well<br>> > >> thus far... �Then again, I'm pretty comfortable with being a jerk.<br>
> > >><br>> > >> In the same vein, we have a lot of people who think of noisebridge as<br>> > >> a place to hang out, not a place to come and hack. �It's frustrating<br>> > >> many of us, especially because we haven't found a good way to say<br>
> > >> "It's awesome that you're here, and we'd love to help you work on<br>> > >> stuff. �What do you want to work on, and how can our community help<br>> > >> you accomplish that?" �It's sort of insidious: there's nobody who is<br>
> > >> clearly abusing the space, it's just that people's behaviors are<br>> > >> shifting the way people use the space. �noisebridge is inadvertantly<br>> > >> becoming a place to come and surf youtube in the evening instead of a<br>
> > >> place to hang out with others who are soldering, coding, or sewing.<br>> > >><br>> > >> Personally, I only come in to work/collaborate on specific things.<br>> > >> It's kind of a bummer, but it's not so bad. �I wind up being a<br>
> > >> floating question-answerer (or, at least, reference-pointer-outer)<br>> > >> anyway, so I get sucked into interesting things beyond my little<br>> > >> focus. �If I was less flexible or pragmatic about how I used my time<br>
> > >> in the space, though, this would be incredibly frustrating.<br>> > >><br>> > >> I think the general problem of people-who-are-distracting is solved<br>> > >> with a single question: how do we integrate people into our do-acracy<br>
> > >> and minimize idle hands at 83c?<br>> > >> --<br>> > >> Josh Myer � 650.248.3796<br>> > >> �<a href="mailto:josh@joshisanerd.com" target="_blank">josh@joshisanerd.com</a><br>
> > >><br>> > > _______________________________________________<br>> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> > > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>> > ><br>> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> ><br>> <br>> Freelance Journalist & Photographer<br>> <br>> <a href="http://quinnnorton.com" target="_blank">quinnnorton.com</a> || +1 408 813 8064 || aim, skype, msn: ambiguousquinn<br>> <br>> "Samual Beckett once said: 'Every word is like an unnecessary strain<br>
> on silence and nothingness.'<br>> <br>> On the other hand, he SAID it."<br>> - Art Spiegeleman<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br></div></div>-- <br>-- <br>Freedom is not worth having if it does not connote freedom to err.<br>~ Mohandas K. (Mahatma) Gandhi<br><br>If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.<br>
~ George Orwell<br><br>Freedom is the will to be responsible to ourselves.<br>~ Friedrich Nietzsche<br><br>
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