<html><head></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space; ">The heat pump I was thinking of uses 2 hoses to outside air (one intake and the out outlet).<div><br></div><div>mike</div><div><br><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 8, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Christie Dudley wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite">Pardon my ignorance, but it was my understanding that heat pumps worked by running coils underground and regulating temperature that way. I don't see how that could possibly work in the city.<br><br>I'm a fan of propane heaters. Propane burns more cleanly than any other combustibles. It's so clean that you don't need to vent it (so long as it's getting plenty of oxygen), which makes it that much more efficient. It's very easy to control a propane unit, as most are thermostatically controlled. Also, there are a fair number of us about the place who have a good working knowledge of propane.<br>
<br>There are also a lot of options for propane heaters as well, although few are recommended to heat more than about 500 sq. ft. I figure that we might get by with one or two if we focus on key areas and do a lot with insulation. Also, an additional advantage of propane is that when we run out because we forgot to fill up the tank at the appropriate time, it's really easy to come by.<br>
<br>Christie<br clear="all">--- <br>Why I take the road less traveled? Oh, that's easy. I'm claustrophobic.<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Michael Wright <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mike@smallip.com">mike@smallip.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">How about a portable Heat-Pump unit?<div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=comparisonshopping" target="_blank">http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=comparisonshopping</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>My parents have been using a window mount unit at their place in the central valley for like 10 years (they did opt to add a pellet stove as well though).</div><div><br></div><div>These work well when the outside air isn't so cold as to make the "outside air" coil develop ice. Luckily SF doesn't get that cold.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The upside is it's more efficient than regular electric heat.</div><div>Regular wall plug electric heater (converts 100% of electricity to heat) : </div><div><br></div><div>1500 watts X 3.41 Watts/BTU/Hr = 5115 BTU/Hr</div>
<div><br></div><div>Heat Pump Unit:</div><div><li>Heating Capacity:12,000 BTU/Hr
</li><li>Power Consumption: Heating- 1160 W</li><div><br></div><div>That looks like about 200% of the heating for about 77% of the electricity. In terms of total heating capacity it would be equivelent to 2 1500 Watt wall plug heaters costing about $35 each (less if one accepts the loud ones, more if one wants the spiffy quartz radiant ones).</div>
</div><div><br></div><div>The downside is that it needs access to a window, isn't quiet, and cost $500 bucks.</div><div><br></div><div>On other notes, any kind of convection heater (the oil filled radiator ones) will be a poor choice because they act slow and heat _all_ the air in a room, which is actually a lot more air than we want heated (because we technically have only one room).</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>mike</div><div><div></div><div class="h5"><div><br></div><div><br><div><div>On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Vlad Spears wrote:</div><br><blockquote type="cite"><div>It's not random fire from the installation I would be concerned <br>
about. That should be fine. I think the "random fire in noisebridge" <br>might go something like this:<br><br>"It's pretty warm here by the stove, but not all the way over by the <br>far side where I want to sit."<br>
<br>"I know! Let's build a supplementary stove from cpu casings lined <br>with tinfoil and crushed kitchen tile, and move some of the fire over <br>there with an old hard drive platter."<br><br>"Brilliant! If this works out, we can put it on top of the dark room!"<br>
<br>Vlad<br><br><br><br><br>On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Martin Bogomolni wrote:<br><br><blockquote type="cite">There's nothing "random" about the installation of a pellet burning<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
stove. Installing one in San Francisco requires permits, proper<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">ventilation and ductwork installed by qualified contractors, etc.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">There are also regular "burn bans" in San Francisco to preserve air<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">quality, usually on the coldest days of the year. So just when you<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">want to burn the most, you can't.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it's pretty economical, but a<br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite">pain in the butt to install one.<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">-Martin<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Shannon Lee <<a href="mailto:shannon@scatter.com" target="_blank">shannon@scatter.com</a>> <br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Hey,<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">There was some discussion about having propane heat, specifically <br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">so that we<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">can get people who want heat to fund heat on a very atomic level. <br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">We have<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">been leaning against it because of fire hazards; specifically, we <br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">have an<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">extensive sprinkler system, so even a small fire problem can turn <br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">into a<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">huge water problem.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I just see a huge potential problem with random fire in noisebridge.<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--S<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Kevin Warnock <<a href="mailto:kevin@warnock.com" target="_blank">kevin@warnock.com</a>> <br>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">wrote:<br></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">This is my first post to this discussion group. I'm not a member, <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">but I've<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">visited about a dozen times so far.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">I have been reading about the electric bill issues. I have a watt- <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">hour<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">meter I could let the Noisebridge borrow for a while, so the <br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">lights could be<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
tested. The meter will calculate the price to run the lights as <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">well,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">because you can program the electricity rate into it.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
Separately, has any thought been given to installing a wood pellet <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">stove<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">for heat? The pellets are much less costly per btu than electric <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">heat<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">produced... I think half or a third as much. The pellets can be <br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">ordered by<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
the truck load, and since there is a freight elevator, they can be <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">brought<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">up to the third floor. Another advantage is that the rate per <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">pound goes<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">down when you buy more, not up like with electricity, at least <br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">that's the<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
way residential electricity works... not sure about commercial <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">electricity.<br></blockquote></blockquote>
</blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"> A single pellet stove will heat the entire Noisebridge to a toasty<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite">temperature if desired, and would only have to be filled every few <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">days I<br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">think. I think the flu can exit through a wall. I have no personal<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">experience with pellet stoves, but I do have experience with wood <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
stoves,<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">and they produce a LOT of heat... I would guess the heat of 20+ <br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">electric<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">space heaters when they are burning a full load of wood.<br>
</blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">The pellets are about 1/2' long and a 1/4" in diameter.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Hope this helps.<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">--<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Kevin Warnock<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">(415) 661-5600<br></blockquote>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Blog: <a href="http://KevinWarnock.com/" target="_blank">KevinWarnock.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Website: <a href="http://gOffice.com/" target="_blank">gOffice.com</a><br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">
<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">_______________________________________________<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite">
<blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite">Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br></blockquote></blockquote></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><blockquote type="cite"><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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