So what you're saying is anyone who wants to lock in a room needs to post their email addresses on the web? You do realize the implications of this, right?<div><br></div><div>There is a lot of "solving problems that don't exist" going on here. If people hold events, they usually do some kind of promotion as well. If there are events that show up on the calendar that nobody has any idea what they are, whether there's an email address associated or not, that are potentially blocking other events are probably going to be targeted to get bumped. </div>
<div><br></div><div>This should go without saying to those of us who even give a passing glance at the mailing list and/or show up to the occasional meeting. I'd even be willing to bet all those that don't would have to do is ask someone who's more active. (Which they generally do anyway.)</div>
<div><br></div><div>This is clearly a problem that's already been solved.</div><div><br></div><div>Christie<br clear="all">_______<br>Getting to the bottom of the hill is convenient. The view from the top of the hill is stunning. Where would you choose to live?<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 11:14 AM, davidfine <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:d@vidfine.com">d@vidfine.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
I'm cool with that definition. The practical upshot is, if we get consensus, that events listed without a contact email address are not immune from being displaced by other events. <br>
--D<br>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">On Sun 24/01/10 9:49 AM , "jim" <a href="mailto:jim@well.com" target="_blank">jim@well.com</a> sent:<br>
</span><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(245, 245, 245);margin-left:5px;margin-right:0px;padding-left:5px;padding-right:0px"><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
"significant resources" for now could be defined as <br>
reserved use of some area in the space and also use <br>
of electrical power. <br>
<br>
"contact information" for now could be defined as <br>
an email address. <br>
<br>
definitions could be changed as part of the self-<br>
adjusting mechanism of responding to frustrations <br>
as we discover them. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 09:30 -0800, davidfine wrote:<br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> I'd rather stay open to pranks and malice than implement something</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> counter to our values. It's not like a plane will explode if we don't</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> IR scan everyone who edits our wiki. But as you said, we have a right</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> to insist that a person reserving "significant resources" leave some</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> contact info. All that remains is to define "significant resources"</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> and "contact information". </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> --D</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> On Sun 24/01/10 8:48 AM , "jim" <a>jim@well.com</a> sent:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> i think your note below is right on. to claim </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> resources, all that's needed for sure is some </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> means of communication with the prospective claimer. </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> i don't see a need for validating the actual </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> identity of the claimer. </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> i like the idea that claims on resources would </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> involve a member (not to say non-members should </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> not be able to use resources ad hoc, and "resources" </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> to me means things that are significant, such as </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> classroom space, electrical power costs, quality </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> of air, use of community effort...). </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 23:00 -0800, Ian Atha wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > We could have an optional organiser field for each event</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> created.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > During a meeting two weeks ago, someone mentioned that "it's</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> nice to</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > have events sponsored by a member". Anything other than that</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> is</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > impossible, or we would be fooling ourselves, given our</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> current</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > infrastructure.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > That's to say, I have no clue who "Ever Falling" is, if they</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> are a</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > member, or if they are to be trusted. I have no way of</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> actually</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > associating that guy who introduced himself as "Leif" to me</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> with</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > "<a>leif@synthesize.us</a>", other than good faith. I have no</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> problem</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > extending that good faith to people editing the wiki putting</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> a "name"</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > (or a moniker, or whatever).</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > If someone really wants authentication and authorization for</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> reserving</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > resources, I would really like to hear a full-fledged</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> proposal. How do</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > we associate monikers with faces? How do we associate</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> monikers with</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > usernames? Who validates that? Who says "thatha" is a</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> trusted person,</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > but not "anonymous_user_1234"?</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 20:59, jim <<a>jim@well.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > makes sense.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > i wasn't worried about spam-like robots, mainly</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > some way to manage contention for resources, also</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > to minimize pranks and malice.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > non-logged in edits seem fine, but people so</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > doing and who want to claim a resource should</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > identify themselves somehow or another, it seems</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > to me.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 18:35 -0800, Leif Ryge wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> So-called "anonymous" edits on mediawiki are really a</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> misnomer - it is more accurate to describe them as</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> non-logged-in edits, since they are actually attributed to an</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> IP address which is potentially much less anonymous than</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> logging in with a pseudonym.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> The reason to allow them is convenience and the increased</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> participationn that results from that. People are much more</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> likely to edit the wiki if there are no barriers to doing so,</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> and the small hassle of picking a name and password is a</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> significant barrier. On the other hand, requiring login to</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> edit achieves absolutely nothing, unless you also restrict</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> account creation (which would obviously be a much bigger</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> barrier and reduce the use(fulness) of the wiki). I'm an admin</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> on a couple of wikis which do require a login to edit, and let</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> me tell you: spam robots figured out how to create mediawiki</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> accounts a *long* time ago.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> So, I think we should continue to allow non-logged-in</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> edits on the wiki, and by extension the calendar, so that</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> forgetting one's password (or not wanting to create yet</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> another) is no excuse for not putting something on it.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ~leif</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> p.s.: notes from Ian and me meeting today are at</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a href="http://parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseCal" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseCal</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ----- Original message -----</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > oh, i don't get why anonymous edits:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > anonymity seems antithetical to accountabilty, and</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > it seems to me things that our community depends on</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ought to have some accountability track: who's claiming</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > what resources and why. requiring a name also reduces</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > the vulnerability to malice and pranks.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 13:36 -0800, Ian Atha wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > Hey folks,</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > Leif and I are meeting up at 2169 today circa 3pm to</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> brainstorm about</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > the implementation of the One True Noisebridge</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> Calendar. If you have</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > anything you'd like us to consider now's the time to</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> speak!</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > For your reference, voilá Kelly's specs:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Publicly editable, anonymously editable</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Publicly linkable</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Has the usual variety of calendar layouts (day,</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> week, month, list)</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - The usual calendar capabilities (description field,</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> repeating events)</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - iCal feed, RSS feed</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Some sort of feed which can auto-update the wiki</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> homepage</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Probably free</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Hosted locally(ish)</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > And bonus options:</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Can use wiki logins or some other kind of</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> identification in addition</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > to anonymous</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Events have a field for which room/area of NB</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - Calendars show which room/area of NB</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - open source or some other moral superiority</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - easy publishing to email (for nb-announce, for</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> instance)</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > - misc bells and whistles</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > I'd heart you so much more if we keep this thread</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> relevant!</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > -ian.</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > _______________________________________________</span><br>
</div></div><div class="im"><span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > > <a>Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a href="http://parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> > <a>Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a href="http://parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >> <a>Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a href="http://parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > > <a>Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a href="http://parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank"><span style="color:red">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> > </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> <a>Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
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<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<span style="color:rgb(102, 102, 102)">> </span><br>
<br>
<br>
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