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<style> BODY { font-family:Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:12px; }</style>I'm cool with that definition. The practical upshot is, if we get consensus, that events listed without a contact email address are not immune from being displaced by other events. <br>
--D<br>
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<br>
<span style="font-weight: bold;">On Sun 24/01/10 9:49 AM , "jim" jim@well.com sent:<br>
</span><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(245, 245, 245); margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px; padding-left: 5px; padding-right: 0px;"><br>
<br>
"significant resources" for now could be defined as <br>
reserved use of some area in the space and also use <br>
of electrical power. <br>
<br>
"contact information" for now could be defined as <br>
an email address. <br>
<br>
definitions could be changed as part of the self-<br>
adjusting mechanism of responding to frustrations <br>
as we discover them. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sun, 2010-01-24 at 09:30 -0800, davidfine wrote:<br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> I'd rather stay open to pranks and malice than implement something</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> counter to our values. It's not like a plane will explode if we don't</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> IR scan everyone who edits our wiki. But as you said, we have a right</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> to insist that a person reserving "significant resources" leave some</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> contact info. All that remains is to define "significant resources"</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> and "contact information". </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> --D</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> On Sun 24/01/10 8:48 AM , "jim" <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('jim@well.com','','','')">jim@well.com</a> sent:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> i think your note below is right on. to claim </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> resources, all that's needed for sure is some </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> means of communication with the prospective claimer. </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> i don't see a need for validating the actual </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> identity of the claimer. </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> i like the idea that claims on resources would </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> involve a member (not to say non-members should </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> not be able to use resources ad hoc, and "resources" </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> to me means things that are significant, such as </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> classroom space, electrical power costs, quality </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> of air, use of community effort...). </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 23:00 -0800, Ian Atha wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > We could have an optional organiser field for each event</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> created.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > During a meeting two weeks ago, someone mentioned that "it's</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> nice to</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > have events sponsored by a member". Anything other than that</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> is</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > impossible, or we would be fooling ourselves, given our</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> current</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > infrastructure.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > That's to say, I have no clue who "Ever Falling" is, if they</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> are a</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > member, or if they are to be trusted. I have no way of</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> actually</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > associating that guy who introduced himself as "Leif" to me</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> with</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > "<a href="javascript:top.opencompose('leif@synthesize.us','','','')">leif@synthesize.us</a>", other than good faith. I have no</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> problem</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > extending that good faith to people editing the wiki putting</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> a "name"</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > (or a moniker, or whatever).</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > If someone really wants authentication and authorization for</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> reserving</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > resources, I would really like to hear a full-fledged</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> proposal. How do</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > we associate monikers with faces? How do we associate</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> monikers with</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > usernames? Who validates that? Who says "thatha" is a</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> trusted person,</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > but not "anonymous_user_1234"?</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > On Sat, Jan 23, 2010 at 20:59, jim <<a href="javascript:top.opencompose('jim@well.com','','','')">jim@well.com</a>> wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > makes sense.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > i wasn't worried about spam-like robots, mainly</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > some way to manage contention for resources, also</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > to minimize pranks and malice.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > non-logged in edits seem fine, but people so</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > doing and who want to claim a resource should</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > identify themselves somehow or another, it seems</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > to me.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 18:35 -0800, Leif Ryge wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> So-called "anonymous" edits on mediawiki are really a</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> misnomer - it is more accurate to describe them as</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> non-logged-in edits, since they are actually attributed to an</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> IP address which is potentially much less anonymous than</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> logging in with a pseudonym.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> The reason to allow them is convenience and the increased</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> participationn that results from that. People are much more</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> likely to edit the wiki if there are no barriers to doing so,</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> and the small hassle of picking a name and password is a</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> significant barrier. On the other hand, requiring login to</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> edit achieves absolutely nothing, unless you also restrict</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> account creation (which would obviously be a much bigger</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> barrier and reduce the use(fulness) of the wiki). I'm an admin</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> on a couple of wikis which do require a login to edit, and let</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> me tell you: spam robots figured out how to create mediawiki</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> accounts a *long* time ago.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> So, I think we should continue to allow non-logged-in</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> edits on the wiki, and by extension the calendar, so that</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> forgetting one's password (or not wanting to create yet</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> another) is no excuse for not putting something on it.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ~leif</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> p.s.: notes from Ian and me meeting today are at</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseCal"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/NoiseCal</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ----- Original message -----</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > oh, i don't get why anonymous edits:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > anonymity seems antithetical to accountabilty, and</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > it seems to me things that our community depends on</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ought to have some accountability track: who's claiming</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > what resources and why. requiring a name also reduces</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > the vulnerability to malice and pranks.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > On Sat, 2010-01-23 at 13:36 -0800, Ian Atha wrote:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > Hey folks,</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > Leif and I are meeting up at 2169 today circa 3pm to</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> brainstorm about</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > the implementation of the One True Noisebridge</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> Calendar. If you have</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > anything you'd like us to consider now's the time to</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> speak!</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > For your reference, voilá Kelly's specs:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Publicly editable, anonymously editable</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Publicly linkable</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Has the usual variety of calendar layouts (day,</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> week, month, list)</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - The usual calendar capabilities (description field,</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> repeating events)</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - iCal feed, RSS feed</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Some sort of feed which can auto-update the wiki</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> homepage</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Probably free</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Hosted locally(ish)</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > And bonus options:</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Can use wiki logins or some other kind of</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> identification in addition</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > to anonymous</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Events have a field for which room/area of NB</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - Calendars show which room/area of NB</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - open source or some other moral superiority</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - easy publishing to email (for nb-announce, for</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> instance)</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > - misc bells and whistles</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > I'd heart you so much more if we keep this thread</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> relevant!</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > -ian.</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > > <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net','','','')">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> > <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net','','','')">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >> <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net','','','')">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > >></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > > <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net','','','')">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > ></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> > </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> _______________________________________________</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list</span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a href="javascript:top.opencompose('Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net','','','')">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> <a target="_blank" href="parse.php?redirect=https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss"><span style="color: red;">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</span></a></span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<span style="color: rgb(102, 102, 102);">> </span><br>
<br>
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