Another question that is worth considering...<div><br></div><div>Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? �If so, any interest we earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for advance payment. �If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6 months operating expenses in the bank?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Christie<br clear="all">_______<br>"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." -- Albert Einstein<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
� feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can<br>
reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--<br>
increase the discount according to how far ahead one<br>
has paid.<br>
� feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding<br>
advance payment in the case of members who stick around:<br>
it's less money overall (shannon's observation re<br>
members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:<br>
> I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,<br>
> is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run. �I<br>
> don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply<br>
> forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little<br>
> while ago? �I think? �So I believe the first need is a system that<br>
> tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people<br>
> with a reminder periodically until they have paid. �After we do that we<br>
> can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.<br>
><br>
> (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more<br>
> money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)<br>
><br>
> I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie<br>
> mentioned. �I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report<br>
> back. �Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and<br>
> maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom<br>
> posted, an hour or two ago?<br>
><br>
> My take on the requirements for such a system are:<br>
><br>
> * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,<br>
> whatever anonymous key we want)<br>
> * can automatically email those who are N days late<br>
> * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date<br>
><br>
> Rachel<br>
><br>
> aestetix aestetix wrote:<br>
> > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or<br>
> > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and motivation<br>
> > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it<br>
> > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people<br>
> > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.<br>
> ><br>
> > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots<br>
> > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot of<br>
> > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each<br>
> > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out<br>
> > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group<br>
> > in the long term.<br>
> ><br>
> > aestetix<br>
> ><br>
> > PS: I am not a communist.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > � � there's a difference between dying and dead, too.<br>
> > � � general rule of thumb is to have about six months<br>
> > � � expenses in the bank and start panicking when it<br>
> > � � gets down to three. time to panic, according to<br>
> > � � the general rule.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > � � On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:<br>
> > � � > Are we actually in the red?<br>
> > � � ><br>
> > � � > There's a big difference between not having a few months wiggleroom,<br>
> > � � > and having our checks bounce.<br>
> > � � ><br>
> > � � > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > � � <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>>><br>
> > � � > wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � oooh I had no idea! �yeah i'll get in touch with them right<br>
> > � � > � � � � away. �i did<br>
> > � � > � � � � search various open source repos and found nothing useful...<br>
> > � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � Christie Dudley wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put together a<br>
> > � � > � � � � complete<br>
> > � � > � � � � > open source package for managing things, including payment<br>
> > � � > � � � � tracking and<br>
> > � � > � � � � > so forth that they're interested in sharing. �It might not<br>
> > � � > � � � � be a bad<br>
> > � � > � � � � > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a look<br>
> > � � > � � � � at that,<br>
> > � � > � � � � > don't you think?<br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > The problem may already be solved for us.<br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > Christie<br>
> > � � > � � � � > _______<br>
> > � � > � � � � > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from<br>
> > � � > � � � � mediocrities.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not<br>
> > � � > � � � � thoughtlessly submit<br>
> > � � > � � � � > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses<br>
> > � � > � � � � his<br>
> > � � > � � � � > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein<br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > � � > � � � � <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>><br>
> > � � ><br>
> > � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>>>><br>
> > � � wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � It's all done by hand right now, there's no automation.<br>
> > � � > � � � � �I mean the bank<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown up,<br>
> > � � > � � � � but there isn't<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � any system to associate it with a particular member.<br>
> > � � > � � � � �Sometimes a<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have to<br>
> > � � > � � � � go look at the<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � name on the check, etc.<br>
> > � � > � � � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � jim wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � > � �Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there must<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � > be some tracking in place, yes?<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � ><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > � � > � � � � wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> I like this in theory but in practice it would be<br>
> > � � > � � � � folly to officially<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> promote it until we have an accounting system that<br>
> > � � > � � � � can support it.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who isn't;<br>
> > � � > � � � � work is<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � underway on<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> a system to manage this but let's get it working<br>
> > � � > � � � � first before we make<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> massive changes to it.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> Rachel<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >> jim wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> � �(seems like a discussion of policy.)<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> � �per the proposal and the points:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> * how much to discount for a one year pre-payment<br>
> > � � > � � � � seems<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes for<br>
> > � � > � � � � it;<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> too big and we miss out on possible income; variable<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for generosity)<br>
> > � � > � � � � may<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> work....<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system", as<br>
> > � � > � � � � long<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> as we can track payments with respect to members,<br>
> > � � > � � � � this<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the quarter<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is<br>
> > � � > � � � � recorded<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> implication?<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> * we should certainly try to help our current cash<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help the<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> initially excited retain their interest over a<br>
> > � � > � � � � longer<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> time period, which seems an additional value.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but<br>
> > � � > � � � � certainly<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than money<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> some later day, especially if there's some question<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> about getting money on those later days. a real<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> answer to this might help settle the discount<br>
> > � � > � � � � problem.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee<br>
> > � � > � � � � wrote:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Hi All,<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> This idea has been brought up at several meetings<br>
> > � � > � � � � now and no<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously it's<br>
> > � � > � � � � time to<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � expand the<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> conversation!<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night was<br>
> > � � > � � � � this:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can<br>
> > � � > � � � � knock $20 off.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � Or one<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. �I think<br>
> > � � > � � � � it's a good idea;<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do not<br>
> > � � > � � � � have a real<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a<br>
> > � � > � � � � year's dues as this<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> month's revenue.<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the<br>
> > � � > � � � � following reasons:<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> * it means that people who get very excited about<br>
> > � � > � � � � noisebridge<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � for just<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> long enough to be members and then never show up<br>
> > � � > � � � � again have the<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership<br>
> > � � > � � � � upfront<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand is<br>
> > � � > � � � � double that of<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � a bird<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> in a bush<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Thoughts?<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> --<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Shannon Lee<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> (503) 539-3700<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>><br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is<br>
> > � � > � � � � indistinguishable from<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � science."<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > � � > � � � � > � � >>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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