Another question that is worth considering...<div><br></div><div>Does Noisebridge have any interest-bearing accounts? If so, any interest we earn on these accounts would easily offset discounts awarded for advance payment. If not... don't you think we should if we're keeping 3-6 months operating expenses in the bank?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Christie<br clear="all">_______<br>"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence." -- Albert Einstein<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 3:14 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<br>
feature suggestion: maybe the tracking system can<br>
reward for advance payments, per the 2% or such idea--<br>
increase the discount according to how far ahead one<br>
has paid.<br>
feature deprecation: there's a downside to rewarding<br>
advance payment in the case of members who stick around:<br>
it's less money overall (shannon's observation re<br>
members who might not stick around is a counterbalance).<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 15:04 -0700, Rachel McConnell wrote:<br>
> I think that ensuring that each member pays their dues, at least mostly,<br>
> is the solution that will work for the entire group in the long run. I<br>
> don't think people are consciously blowing us off, i think they simply<br>
> forget, and then six months later they are like, oh, i paid ... a little<br>
> while ago? I think? So I believe the first need is a system that<br>
> tracks who has paid their dues and (ideally automatically) emails people<br>
> with a reminder periodically until they have paid. After we do that we<br>
> can see if we need to put in any kinds of discounts.<br>
><br>
> (Leif, a percentage discount over a whole year, paid at once, is more<br>
> money than N (<12) monthly payments and a big OOPS-I-FORGOT.)<br>
><br>
> I've pinged Hackerdojo to ask about their system which Christie<br>
> mentioned. I will volunteer to evaluate that, if possible, and report<br>
> back. Will someone else evaluate Miah's suggestion of Salesforce, and<br>
> maybe a third person evaluate the suggestion I also saw which was bottom<br>
> posted, an hour or two ago?<br>
><br>
> My take on the requirements for such a system are:<br>
><br>
> * can track dues payments by member identifier (alias, email address,<br>
> whatever anonymous key we want)<br>
> * can automatically email those who are N days late<br>
> * is easy for the treasurer to keep up to date<br>
><br>
> Rachel<br>
><br>
> aestetix aestetix wrote:<br>
> > I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or<br>
> > dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and motivation<br>
> > of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it<br>
> > financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people<br>
> > together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.<br>
> ><br>
> > It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots<br>
> > of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot of<br>
> > people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each<br>
> > member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out<br>
> > where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group<br>
> > in the long term.<br>
> ><br>
> > aestetix<br>
> ><br>
> > PS: I am not a communist.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > there's a difference between dying and dead, too.<br>
> > general rule of thumb is to have about six months<br>
> > expenses in the bank and start panicking when it<br>
> > gets down to three. time to panic, according to<br>
> > the general rule.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:<br>
> > > Are we actually in the red?<br>
> > ><br>
> > > There's a big difference between not having a few months wiggleroom,<br>
> > > and having our checks bounce.<br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>>><br>
> > > wrote:<br>
> > > oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them right<br>
> > > away. i did<br>
> > > search various open source repos and found nothing useful...<br>
> > ><br>
> > > Christie Dudley wrote:<br>
> > > > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put together a<br>
> > > complete<br>
> > > > open source package for managing things, including payment<br>
> > > tracking and<br>
> > > > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It might not<br>
> > > be a bad<br>
> > > > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a look<br>
> > > at that,<br>
> > > > don't you think?<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > The problem may already be solved for us.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > Christie<br>
> > > > _______<br>
> > > > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from<br>
> > > mediocrities.<br>
> > > > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not<br>
> > > thoughtlessly submit<br>
> > > > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses<br>
> > > his<br>
> > > > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > > <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>>>><br>
> > wrote:<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > It's all done by hand right now, there's no automation.<br>
> > > I mean the bank<br>
> > > > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown up,<br>
> > > but there isn't<br>
> > > > any system to associate it with a particular member.<br>
> > > Sometimes a<br>
> > > > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have to<br>
> > > go look at the<br>
> > > > name on the check, etc.<br>
> > > ><br>
> > > > jim wrote:<br>
> > > > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there must<br>
> > > > > be some tracking in place, yes?<br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel McConnell<br>
> > > wrote:<br>
> > > > >> I like this in theory but in practice it would be<br>
> > > folly to officially<br>
> > > > >> promote it until we have an accounting system that<br>
> > > can support it.<br>
> > > > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who isn't;<br>
> > > work is<br>
> > > > underway on<br>
> > > > >> a system to manage this but let's get it working<br>
> > > first before we make<br>
> > > > >> massive changes to it.<br>
> > > > >><br>
> > > > >> Rachel<br>
> > > > >><br>
> > > > >> jim wrote:<br>
> > > > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)<br>
> > > > >>> per the proposal and the points:<br>
> > > > >>> * how much to discount for a one year pre-payment<br>
> > > seems<br>
> > > > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes for<br>
> > > it;<br>
> > > > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income; variable<br>
> > > > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for generosity)<br>
> > > may<br>
> > > > >>> work....<br>
> > > > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system", as<br>
> > > long<br>
> > > > >>> as we can track payments with respect to members,<br>
> > > this<br>
> > > > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the quarter<br>
> > > > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is<br>
> > > recorded<br>
> > > > >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax<br>
> > > > >>> implication?<br>
> > > > >>> * we should certainly try to help our current cash<br>
> > > > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.<br>
> > > > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help the<br>
> > > > >>> initially excited retain their interest over a<br>
> > > longer<br>
> > > > >>> time period, which seems an additional value.<br>
> > > > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but<br>
> > > certainly<br>
> > > > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than money<br>
> > > > >>> some later day, especially if there's some question<br>
> > > > >>> about getting money on those later days. a real<br>
> > > > >>> answer to this might help settle the discount<br>
> > > problem.<br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > > > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee<br>
> > > wrote:<br>
> > > > >>>> Hi All,<br>
> > > > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several meetings<br>
> > > now and no<br>
> > > > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously it's<br>
> > > time to<br>
> > > > expand the<br>
> > > > >>>> conversation!<br>
> > > > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night was<br>
> > > this:<br>
> > > > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can<br>
> > > knock $20 off.<br>
> > > > Or one<br>
> > > > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.<br>
> > > > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I think<br>
> > > it's a good idea;<br>
> > > > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do not<br>
> > > have a real<br>
> > > > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a<br>
> > > year's dues as this<br>
> > > > >>>> month's revenue.<br>
> > > > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the<br>
> > > following reasons:<br>
> > > > >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch<br>
> > > > >>>> * it means that people who get very excited about<br>
> > > noisebridge<br>
> > > > for just<br>
> > > > >>>> long enough to be members and then never show up<br>
> > > again have the<br>
> > > > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership<br>
> > > upfront<br>
> > > > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand is<br>
> > > double that of<br>
> > > > a bird<br>
> > > > >>>> in a bush<br>
> > > > >>>> Thoughts?<br>
> > > > >>>> --<br>
> > > > >>>> Shannon Lee<br>
> > > > >>>> (503) 539-3700<br>
> > > > >>>><br>
> > > > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is<br>
> > > indistinguishable from<br>
> > > > science."<br>
> > > > >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > > > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > > >>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > ><br>
> > > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>>><br>
> > > > >>>><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > > > >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > > > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > > >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > ><br>
> > > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>>><br>
> > > > >>><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > ><br>
> > > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > ><br>
> > > > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>>><br>
> > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > ><br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > _______________________________________________<br>
> > > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>