I don't think it's really fair to qualify whether a group is alive or dead based on financial numbers. It's more of a mentality and motivation of the people. If a group is in danger for whatever reason, be it financial, political, or anything else, having a call to bring people together to save the group proves that it's alive and well.<br>
<br>It's just like my teacher used to say during the Iraq War debate: lots of bickering about what should be done actually means there are a lot of people who care. I think rather than fingerpointing and ensuring each member pays their dues, we should band together, help each other out where we can, and figure out a solution that works for the entire group in the long term.<br>
<br>aestetix<br><br>PS: I am not a communist.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 2:30 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
there's a difference between dying and dead, too.<br>
general rule of thumb is to have about six months<br>
expenses in the bank and start panicking when it<br>
gets down to three. time to panic, according to<br>
the general rule.<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 12:40 -0700, aestetix aestetix wrote:<br>
> Are we actually in the red?<br>
><br>
> There's a big difference between not having a few months wiggleroom,<br>
> and having our checks bounce.<br>
><br>
> On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Rachel McConnell <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> oooh I had no idea! yeah i'll get in touch with them right<br>
> away. i did<br>
> search various open source repos and found nothing useful...<br>
><br>
> Christie Dudley wrote:<br>
> > Katie from Hacker Dojo was mentioning they'd put together a<br>
> complete<br>
> > open source package for managing things, including payment<br>
> tracking and<br>
> > so forth that they're interested in sharing. It might not<br>
> be a bad<br>
> > idea, and foster a bit of goodwill if we at least had a look<br>
> at that,<br>
> > don't you think?<br>
> ><br>
> > The problem may already be solved for us.<br>
> ><br>
> > Christie<br>
> > _______<br>
> > "Great spirits have always found violent opposition from<br>
> mediocrities.<br>
> > The latter cannot understand it when a man does not<br>
> thoughtlessly submit<br>
> > to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses<br>
> his<br>
> > intelligence." -- Albert Einstein<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Rachel McConnell<br>
> <<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:rachel@xtreme.com">rachel@xtreme.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> > It's all done by hand right now, there's no automation.<br>
> I mean the bank<br>
> > account (and paypal, etc) tracks that $X has shown up,<br>
> but there isn't<br>
> > any system to associate it with a particular member.<br>
> Sometimes a<br>
> > payment comes with a note; if it's a check you have to<br>
> go look at the<br>
> > name on the check, etc.<br>
> ><br>
> > jim wrote:<br>
> > > Y'all have reminded me of payment, so there must<br>
> > > be some tracking in place, yes?<br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > ><br>
> > > On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 10:29 -0700, Rachel McConnell<br>
> wrote:<br>
> > >> I like this in theory but in practice it would be<br>
> folly to officially<br>
> > >> promote it until we have an accounting system that<br>
> can support it.<br>
> > >> Already we don't know who is paid up and who isn't;<br>
> work is<br>
> > underway on<br>
> > >> a system to manage this but let's get it working<br>
> first before we make<br>
> > >> massive changes to it.<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> Rachel<br>
> > >><br>
> > >> jim wrote:<br>
> > >>> (seems like a discussion of policy.)<br>
> > >>> per the proposal and the points:<br>
> > >>> * how much to discount for a one year pre-payment<br>
> seems<br>
> > >>> the difficult part: too little and no one goes for<br>
> it;<br>
> > >>> too big and we miss out on possible income; variable<br>
> > >>> (maybe within some limits, hoping for generosity)<br>
> may<br>
> > >>> work....<br>
> > >>> * if we don't have a "real accounting system", as<br>
> long<br>
> > >>> as we can track payments with respect to members,<br>
> this<br>
> > >>> seems a non-issue. for example, i pay by the quarter<br>
> > >>> and haven't had any problems. if a payment is<br>
> recorded<br>
> > >>> as income for the current month, is there a tax<br>
> > >>> implication?<br>
> > >>> * we should certainly try to help our current cash<br>
> > >>> crunch"; the overall downward trend scares me.<br>
> > >>> * grabbing a year's supply of money may help the<br>
> > >>> initially excited retain their interest over a<br>
> longer<br>
> > >>> time period, which seems an additional value.<br>
> > >>> * i'm not convinced of your arithmetic, but<br>
> certainly<br>
> > >>> money today is worth a fair amount more than money<br>
> > >>> some later day, especially if there's some question<br>
> > >>> about getting money on those later days. a real<br>
> > >>> answer to this might help settle the discount<br>
> problem.<br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 09:49 -0700, Shannon Lee<br>
> wrote:<br>
> > >>>> Hi All,<br>
> > >>>> This idea has been brought up at several meetings<br>
> now and no<br>
> > >>>> satisfactory resolution reached, so obviously it's<br>
> time to<br>
> > expand the<br>
> > >>>> conversation!<br>
> > >>>> The specific proposal brought up last night was<br>
> this:<br>
> > >>>> If you pay your dues a year at a time, you can<br>
> knock $20 off.<br>
> > Or one<br>
> > >>>> month's dues off. Or some amount of money.<br>
> > >>>> Many perspectives were voiced on this. I think<br>
> it's a good idea;<br>
> > >>>> others disagreed, primarily because, as we do not<br>
> have a real<br>
> > >>>> accounting system, this amounts to counting a<br>
> year's dues as this<br>
> > >>>> month's revenue.<br>
> > >>>> Again, I think this is a good idea, for the<br>
> following reasons:<br>
> > >>>> * it could help with our current cash cruch<br>
> > >>>> * it means that people who get very excited about<br>
> noisebridge<br>
> > for just<br>
> > >>>> long enough to be members and then never show up<br>
> again have the<br>
> > >>>> opportunity to pay a whole year's membership<br>
> upfront<br>
> > >>>> * the economic value of a bird in one's hand is<br>
> double that of<br>
> > a bird<br>
> > >>>> in a bush<br>
> > >>>> Thoughts?<br>
> > >>>> --<br>
> > >>>> Shannon Lee<br>
> > >>>> (503) 539-3700<br>
> > >>>><br>
> > >>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is<br>
> indistinguishable from<br>
> > science."<br>
> > >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > >>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> > >>>><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > >>><br>
> > >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> > >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
><br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br>