Whoever decides to bring the lawsuit. That's why this approach is so elegant and simple.<br><br>Ian<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 3, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Patrick Keys <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:citizenkeys@gmail.com">citizenkeys@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Since nobody is in charge, who gets to decide what's excellent and what<br>
isn't?<br>
<br>
<br>
Patrick<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/3/2011 12:20 AM, <a href="mailto:girlgeek@wt.net">girlgeek@wt.net</a> wrote:<br>
> Christie wrote "While generally, it's a good idea to do or not do<br>
> certain things, and<br>
> often it may even be necessary to write those certain things down, we've<br>
> kinda stuck with the "be excellent" as a catch-all for hopefully not<br>
> having to tell people that being hurtful to the space or others who use<br>
> it is bad."<br>
><br>
> Christie,<br>
> "be excellent" is a really much more excellent way to deal with things<br>
> than rules. For example, exactly how much sleeping on the couch is not<br>
> acceptable? "When it is not excellent behavior" is the answer.<br>
><br>
> I think that you and I are agreeing, but I just wanted to write this.<br>
> Be well,<br>
> Claudia<br>
><br>
><br>
> --- <a href="mailto:longobord@gmail.com">longobord@gmail.com</a> wrote:<br>
><br>
> From: Christie Dudley <<a href="mailto:longobord@gmail.com">longobord@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: Patrick Keys <<a href="mailto:citizenkeys@gmail.com">citizenkeys@gmail.com</a>><br>
> Cc: "<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] policies and procedures (more things<br>
> you don't want to hear)<br>
> Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 21:48:06 -0800<br>
><br>
> So you really think that'll make a difference in a lawsuit? I really<br>
> wonder what the insurance people have to say about it. We do, after all,<br>
> have coverage for just that sort of thing. I'm surprised we had to rely<br>
> on you and not them for this sort of instructions.<br>
><br>
> And Noisebridge is all about covering their ass for this sort of thing,<br>
> naturally.<br>
><br>
> C<br>
> _______<br>
> "It is the time you have lost for your rose that makes your rose so<br>
> important."<br>
> Antoine de Saint-Exupéry<br>
><br>
> "Too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart."<br>
> William Butler Yeats<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:30 PM, Patrick Keys <<a href="mailto:citizenkeys@gmail.com">citizenkeys@gmail.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:citizenkeys@gmail.com">citizenkeys@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> If nothing else, they need to be called "policies and procedures"<br>
> for legal reasons.<br>
><br>
> The first time somebody gets a serious injury and decides to file a<br>
> lawsuit, the first question that will be asked is "did noisebridge<br>
> have any policy or procedure intended to prevent this?"<br>
><br>
> Likewise, noisebridge legally needs a policy to prevent taking<br>
> noisebridge property because noisebridge is a non-profit. taking<br>
> noisebridge property is considered an illegal transfer of assets.<br>
> legally, assets at a non-profit can only be transferred to another<br>
> non-profit. taking something from a non-profit for personal use can<br>
> easily cause noisebridge to lose its tax-exempt status.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Patrick<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 1/2/2011 8:43 PM, Christie Dudley wrote:<br>
><br>
> I admit that the OP was tl;dr.<br>
><br>
> The biggest problem with any "rule" at Noisebridge is that it's<br>
> ultimately unenforceable.<br>
><br>
> Remember the time we tried to keep the dirty hippy out and he<br>
> climbed<br>
> the fire escape to get in?<br>
> Think of all the sleeping people!<br>
><br>
> Until we have a 24x7 hall monitor that we trust with real power and<br>
> authority, it just makes people who try to make rules look dumb<br>
> to have<br>
> the rules flagrantly disregarded. There are sometimes trolls<br>
> amongst us<br>
> who will deliberately flagrantly disregard rules for the purpose of<br>
> making the rule-maker look stupid.<br>
><br>
> While generally, it's a good idea to do or not do certain<br>
> things, and<br>
> often it may even be necessary to write those certain things<br>
> down, we've<br>
> kinda stuck with the "be excellent" as a catch-all for hopefully not<br>
> having to tell people that being hurtful to the space or others<br>
> who use<br>
> it is bad.<br>
><br>
> Christie<br>
> _______<br>
> "It is the time you have lost for your rose that makes your rose so<br>
> important."<br>
> Antoine de Saint-Exupéry<br>
><br>
> "Too long a sacrifice can make a stone of the heart."<br>
> William Butler Yeats<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 9:19 AM, jim <<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com">jim@systemateka.com</a><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com">jim@systemateka.com</a>><br>
> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com">jim@systemateka.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com">jim@systemateka.com</a>>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> these seem like reasonable tho'ts.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, 2011-01-01 at 21:25 -0800, Patrick Keys wrote:<br>
> > Since nobody wants to hear it from me, I'll try to keep this<br>
> short:<br>
> ><br>
> > Going into this new year, Noisebridge should (needs!) do things<br>
> like the<br>
> > rest of the world and formally acknowledge some policies and<br>
> procedures.<br>
> > You can read more about these types of things at:<br>
> > <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policies_and_procedures" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policies_and_procedures</a><br>
> ><br>
> > There are both legal and practical requirements for policies and<br>
> > procedures. While it sounds cool to claim there's no<br>
> policies, I'm<br>
> > certain Noisebridge has at least some general policies. "Be<br>
> excellent to<br>
> > each other", wear shoes while in the space, don't use bittorrent<br>
> on the<br>
> > noisebridge network, clean up after yourself, don't sleep here<br>
> overnight<br>
> > are just a few policies that I know exist.<br>
> ><br>
> > As for procedures, Noisebridge has some of those as well. Post<br>
> > something to the rack list if you modify a server, put money<br>
> into the<br>
> > drink donations bin if you take a drink from the fridge, etc.<br>
> A few<br>
> > more that should seriously be considered are providing a real<br>
> receipt to<br>
> > the treasurer/bookkeeper if you spend noisebridge money, a<br>
> procedure to<br>
> > reserve certain resources for a specific date/time (a classroom,<br>
> use of<br>
> > a projector, etc.), and accepting packages delivered to<br>
> noisebridge and<br>
> > notifying the recipient.<br>
> ><br>
> > All policies and procedures should be kept in a location that<br>
> guests and<br>
> > members alike can easily locate. I recommend:<br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Policies_and_procedures" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/Policies_and_procedures</a><br>
> ><br>
> > Policies and procedures prevent petty disputes and allow<br>
> people that<br>
> > don't know each other very well and don't particularly like each<br>
> other<br>
> > very much to at least sorta get along with each other.<br>
> Noisebridge has<br>
> > too many members and visitors at this point to not have any<br>
> general<br>
> > policies and procedures.<br>
> ><br>
> > Hopefully this posting will not start a flame war.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Happy New Year!<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > Patrick<br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Ian McKellar <<a href="http://ian.mckellar.org/">http://ian.mckellar.org/</a>><br><a href="mailto:ian@mckellar.org">ian@mckellar.org</a>: email | jabber | msn<br>ianloic: flickr | aim | yahoo | skype | linkedin | etc.<br>