<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:30 AM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com">jim@systemateka.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
<br>
seems to me the issue is about the definition of the word<br>
"to hack". i like the definition "to attempt to solve a<br>
problem by artfully applying skills without reference to a<br>
plan or instructions." this strikes me as a specific and<br>
useful meaning that is valuable in its general applicability.<br></blockquote><div><br>I agree with that as far as it goes. I have to strengthen something about stirring up the status quo (I take it "no plan .." means from some authority, I can make a plan for myself if I want). May be either disruptively or constructively. <br>
Usually involves making something.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
that the meaning is restricted to coding and electronics<br>
strikes me as unnecessarily limiting.<br>
<br></blockquote><div>I sort of agree with the technological connection needed somewhere. In the anthropological sense of tool using maybe. I think there is a fine line between non-material technology and just cultural ways of doing things. perhaps hacking investigates this space. So the adjective "artistic".<br>
<br>The tech could be to use tech in a new (artistically) and possibly revolutionary way, couldn't do it otherwise. That's like programming but it is cultural more general. "software" / "hardware" sort of. Abstraction layer maybe.<br>
<br>This is not a short clear definition though. I think that it is important to allow for non-material reality but keep it connected too. <br><br>The hard part for me right now is you have to work with whatever comes along. Dumpster diving treasures are a little scarce these days.<br>
If you are materially deprived then you are forced to go up to the next abstraction level. But also I like to re-engineer things that maybe most geeks think are worthless.<br><br><br><br><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
i don't get the "argument from ignorance" reference (i<br>
read the wikipedia link).<br>
<div><div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, 2011-03-14 at 23:36 -0700, Evan Bangham wrote:<br>
> Politics|Cooking|Art|Writing != Hacking<br>
><br>
> Yes, hacking can involve creativity and breaking established norms,<br>
> but you can't just use it as a blanket term to describe doing anything<br>
> that involves these things.<br>
><br>
> Also, 'political hacking' is not suddenly a valid and meaningful<br>
> expression just because you employ it to describe systemic corruption<br>
> of the US political system. Coupling that with an argument from<br>
> ignorance as you are doing is a fallacious rhetorical stunt.<br>
><br>
> The slow food hacking thing I suppose enters the realm of hacking to a<br>
> limited extent because it is using chemistry and the like, and I<br>
> imagine is subversive in some way. I could say the same about<br>
> photography and the like as long as it breaking the established norms<br>
> of the medium and is harnessing technology in some way. Traditional<br>
> fine art however, can never be 'hacked' because it is just so far<br>
> removed from the realm of anything related to technology or science.<br>
><br>
> I think in many senses I'm being far to accommodating for these<br>
> expanded definitions of the term as it is though.<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Brian Morris <<a href="mailto:cymraegish@gmail.com">cymraegish@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> my feeling is that hacking must involve somewhat underground<br>
> going<br>
> somewhat radically against the established ways.<br>
><br>
> an engineer once worked for a big corporation and the hardware<br>
> hacker<br>
> could beat him to the punch working out of his with garage,<br>
> perhaps<br>
> even with spare and leftover parts. perhaps the hacker once<br>
> worked for<br>
> the man but he dropped out. or he never could deal with the<br>
> establishment in the first place, as a self-taught engineer he<br>
> can't<br>
> get a job but he loves the work anyway so he does whatever he<br>
> needs to<br>
> do to keep it going. Woz was a hacker.<br>
><br>
> a hack writer could be someone who writes hack novels just to<br>
> keep<br>
> writing and not have to wash dishes. but if he is a hacker he<br>
> uses<br>
> that to finance something that might shake things up. He is<br>
> thereby<br>
> refusing to join the establishment / status quo ie to Sell<br>
> Out.<br>
><br>
> -------<br>
><br>
> arguing about whether political hacking exists is silly. we<br>
> all know<br>
> what has happened the last two years, and who hacked the<br>
> political<br>
> establishment. if that wasn't a hack I don't know what is. You<br>
> might<br>
> argue about whether it is on balance disruptive or<br>
> constructive. (I<br>
> ain't advocating nothing).<br>
><br>
> the more current events you might argue about whether for<br>
> instance the<br>
> Middle East has been hacked. But maybe looking at it from that<br>
> point<br>
> of view might be of some help to the liberators in their<br>
> efforts or to<br>
> those who would assist them. Well of course hackers in the<br>
> more narrow<br>
> sense have been of assistance.<br>
><br>
> For another great political hacker you might consider M.<br>
> Ghandi.<br>
> Without his stuff what would the world be like today, hmmm ?<br>
><br>
> You got to have some IMAGINATION.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --------<br>
><br>
> For me Slow Food was hacking. I didn't know anyone else was<br>
> doing it<br>
> until it had become a Thing. I hope to keep doing it even if<br>
> it is no<br>
> longer a Thing. It is radical in this culture and in a quiet<br>
> way that<br>
> hurts nobody.<br>
><br>
> Also I think that the concepts of Digital Art need hacking<br>
> badly.<br>
> This means NO Photoshop, Illustrator, or Flashiness stuff or<br>
> anything<br>
> similar / commercial / mass-market, actually nice if it could<br>
> shake<br>
> these people up but so what if it doesn't too bad for them.<br>
> This stuff<br>
> is leaking all the power from art that should be shaking<br>
> things up.<br>
><br>
> Economic hacking is another thing I like. what can you do to<br>
> escape<br>
> consumerism -- which lends bad politics so much of its power.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM, jim <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
> > here's a link to a political event in SF tomorrow<br>
> > (tuesday 20110315):<br>
> ><br>
> <a href="http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=113305&id=26488-18847062-2m.k8Gx&t=1" target="_blank">http://pol.moveon.org/event/events/event.html?event_id=113305&id=26488-18847062-2m.k8Gx&t=1</a><br>
> ><br>
> > my sense of "hacking politics" is based on the<br>
> > impression that noisebridge is highly open to and<br>
> > welcomes any activities, as long as there's a<br>
> > creative involvement, which is what i understand<br>
> > to be the heart of hacking.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Sun, 2011-03-13 at 22:45 -0700, Snail wrote:<br>
> >> If you are not a hacker, you may just be a hack[er].<br>
> >><br>
> >> BUUURRRN.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Isn't it funny how the word which means an expert at<br>
> programming could<br>
> >> also mean someone who's unskilled in anything else? Does<br>
> that mean<br>
> >> people not skilled at computers are hackers regardless, or<br>
> maybe<br>
> >> inexpert people who can still hack a few working lines of<br>
> code<br>
> >> together are actually doing double the hacking than an<br>
> expert? Does<br>
> >> that mean I'm simultaneously the worst and greatest hacker<br>
> ever, like<br>
> >> a cat trapped in a box? WHY IS ENGLISH DOING THIS TO US.<br>
> >><br>
> >> On another note, Merriam-Webster describes what the<br>
> population of nb<br>
> >> does at the space (I partake of 3 and 4a myself) in two of<br>
> their many<br>
> >> definitions. I'm just giddy now:<br>
> >><br>
> >> hack (v)<br>
> >> 3: loaf —usually used with around<br>
> >> 4 a : to write computer programs for enjoyment<br>
> >><br>
> >> Maybe I should host a breadmaking class, and while we sit<br>
> around and<br>
> >> wait for the bread to bake, people will wonder, "Are we<br>
> hacking, or<br>
> >> are we HACKING?" ["loaf"ing]<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> -The hack writer [The kind of hack writer who's BAD at<br>
> writing, not<br>
> >> the kind who just writes on commission. -- I don't actually<br>
> get paid<br>
> >> for this.]<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> To be more serious, I agree with Evan, and also don't. --<br>
> For one<br>
> >> thing, the word hack has a robust set of definitions which<br>
> existed<br>
> >> before computers and can be applied far away from programs<br>
> and<br>
> >> machines [it's horses all the way down], but I agree that<br>
> I've seen<br>
> >> too many people apply it in a sense that doesn't actually<br>
> make sense.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Example: I don't know what hacking politics is supposed to<br>
> mean based<br>
> >> on this discussion. Are you going to get into politics<br>
> successfully<br>
> >> (general definition of hack) or you're going to find some<br>
> sneaky,<br>
> >> subversive (illegal) way to get something accomplished<br>
> (stretching the<br>
> >> definition of computer hacking to non-computer nouns) in<br>
> politics? --<br>
> >> I think real politicians already have us beat on the latter<br>
> type of<br>
> >> political hacking. Those fuckers.<br>
> >><br>
> >> -Snail<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 8:55 PM, Evan Bangham<br>
> <<a href="mailto:ebangham@gmail.com">ebangham@gmail.com</a>><br>
> >> wrote:<br>
> >> Attention, you cannot 'hack' politics, you cannot<br>
> hack<br>
> >> political parties, you cannot hack politicians, you<br>
> cannot<br>
> >> hack social issues, or fiscal policy. Please for<br>
> the love of<br>
> >> everything holey, stop it with this over<br>
> application of the<br>
> >> word 'hack'. If you do not write code, design<br>
> circuits or at<br>
> >> the very least create mechanical devices, you are<br>
> not a<br>
> >> hacker. Thats right, it's true, the jib is up,<br>
> you're not a<br>
> >> Non hacking hacker, not a anti hacking hacker, a<br>
> sub hacker,<br>
> >> or anything else. You're not a hacker, plain and<br>
> simple.<br>
> >><br>
> >> If people keep on using the word so loosely it will<br>
> soon be<br>
> >> devoid of all meaning and become, semantically<br>
> speaking, a<br>
> >> steaming dead carcass of the word it once was. Soon<br>
> in the not<br>
> >> so distant future we'll be saying shit like "I need<br>
> to hack my<br>
> >> underwear in the washing machine, because I forgot<br>
> hack my ass<br>
> >> when I was on the toilet taking a hack."<br>
> >><br>
> >> I've had a lot of free time lately and I will start<br>
> repeating<br>
> >> this message everytime I see the word, or any<br>
> derivatives<br>
> >> thereof applied in a way that doesn't follow this<br>
> simple<br>
> >> definition.<br>
> >><br>
> >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:46 PM, Wladyslaw<br>
> Zbikowski<br>
> >> <<a href="mailto:embeddedlinuxguy@gmail.com">embeddedlinuxguy@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 2:03 AM, Corey<br>
> McGuire<br>
> >> <<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >> > If you care about your right to vote you<br>
> need to<br>
> >> watch this. This will<br>
> >> > be the most informative hour of your<br>
> life:<br>
> >><br>
> >> I believe in direct action, not voting;<br>
> that's why I<br>
> >> became a hacker<br>
> >> instead of an activist. I don't know (or<br>
> care) what<br>
> >> the fuck you are<br>
> >> talking about, but if watching a video on<br>
> MSNBC is<br>
> >> really the most<br>
> >> informative hour of my life, please drive<br>
> to 2475 3rd<br>
> >> St and kill me<br>
> >> right now. Thanks.<br>
> >><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
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> >><br>
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> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >><br>
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> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> --<br>
> >> -Snailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnailssnails<br>
> >> _______________________________________________<br>
> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >><br>
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