<p>How unexcelent to expect the people of noisebridge to shuffle down two flights of stairs for every visitor. Some of us break a sweat just walking to the door.</p>
<p>Come on, it would only be a day before people just decided to prop it open. Hell,i think I just decided that and it hadn't happened yet. Talk about a zero day exploit.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 20, 2011 4:23 PM, "Casey Callendrello" <<a href="mailto:c1@caseyc.net">c1@caseyc.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">> This sounds pretty good, but it does exclude <br>
> potentially-highly-excellent foreign visitors who don't have a working <br>> US phone number. I think we want there to be *some* sort of doorbell.<br>> <br>> My personal opinion is that the doorbell (the thing that makes makes the <br>
> annoying nose) should only function from 9a-10p. I think the door button <br>> shouldn't work at all.<br>> <br>> <br>> On 9/20/2011 16:00, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:<br>>> Why not just disable the doorbell entirely?<br>
>><br>>> If someone wants to get in, they either a) have a key b) the phone <br>>> number of someone in the space who they know or c) the number of the <br>>> Cisco IP phone. The latter can be easily found by going online, and <br>
>> forces interaction with someone (the person who answers the phone).<br>>><br>>> Someone with a track record of proven excellence can be given a key - <br>>> even if they are not a member.<br>>><br>
>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:03 PM, Casey Callendrello <<a href="mailto:c1@caseyc.net">c1@caseyc.net</a> <br>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:c1@caseyc.net">c1@caseyc.net</a>>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> A few thoughts. I'm just brainstorming here, and welcome comment.<br>
>><br>>> First of all, I highly discourage use of the doorbell as a regular<br>>> means of access. I have personally made it very easy to open the<br>>> gate via cellphone, and I have a more-secure and even-simpler<br>
>> method in the works. I have put my do-ocratic capital where my<br>>> mouth is, as it were.<br>>><br>>> What if we disable the doorbell entirely during certain hours?<br>>><br>>> What if we disable the door button? During certain hours? To let a<br>
>> guest in, you have to walk down to the street, greet them, and<br>>> open the door.<br>>><br>>> --Casey<br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>><br>>> On 09/20/2011 11:49 AM, Ronald Cotoni wrote:<br>
>>> I agree with rubin. This makes a lot of sense and would<br>>>> completely solve this problem and prevent others. On nights like<br>>>> 5 minutes of fame, we could just leave the doors open, if<br>
>>> neccessary. For other nights and times of the day we could just<br>>>> let people in. I am a bit worried about doors near the elevator<br>>>> since we would need to make sure the 2nd floor people can still<br>
>>> get to it and ensuring handicapped access.<br>>>><br>>>> On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Rameen <<a href="mailto:emprameen@gmail.com">emprameen@gmail.com</a><br>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:emprameen@gmail.com">emprameen@gmail.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>>>> I agree with Rubin, and a lot of other people.<br>>>><br>>>> Moreover, I'm extremely impressed by everyone who is<br>>>> presenting ideas and contributing.<br>
>>> I think it's important to point out, this is a do-ocracy and<br>>>> whatever physical alterations occur in the space, are<br>>>> generally approved by the people who are regularly at the<br>
>>> space and actually do stuff. If not, those people tend to<br>>>> un-do those things, because sometimes the public understands<br>>>> what's good for itself. No one owns the space, but we all<br>
>>> make it to benefit each other, as well as ourselves.<br>>>><br>>>> This entire thread is pretty astonishing to me. You guys are<br>>>> amazing!<br>>>><br>
>>> I love Noisebridge a lot, and would be sad if it wasn't as<br>>>> easy for others to access the space as I have been able to. I<br>>>> probably wouldn't have been around to help found the<br>
>>> delicious Tastebridge, otherwise!<br>>>><br>>>> I think we should implement some of the easier solutions,<br>>>> like Rubin's simple (yet powerful) social approach. A change<br>
>>> in mentality, as someone sort-of pointed out, could be<br>>>> something to consider-- don't leave your valuable things<br>>>> lying around in a public space for anyone to pick up. It's<br>
>>> less likely someone is going to try to wheel your robot out<br>>>> of NB than a phone or slender laptop, and it does happen, but<br>>>> be CAREFUL. Everyone wants the space to be safe and open, but<br>
>>> some extreme instances of personal material loss shouldn't be<br>>>> cause to change Noisebridge's radical acceptance policy. Even<br>>>> Jake, who started this thread, has good solutions that won't<br>
>>> necessarily compromise a lot of the openness and public<br>>>> excellence that DOES exist!<br>>>><br>>>> On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM, Rubin Abdi<br>>>> <<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>>>> $0.02<br>>>><br>>>> At the old space, 83c, we had a front door. This door was<br>>>> always locked<br>>>> on the outside. If someone rang the doorbell it was up to<br>
>>> someone inside<br>>>> to get up and let them in. In doing so they would meet<br>>>> the person. It<br>>>> was great, until people didn't want to get up every 5<br>
>>> minutes to let<br>>>> people in. Some of us started handing out keys to those<br>>>> who seemed smart<br>>>> and would come by often. Some of us gave out keys to<br>
>>> people we would<br>>>> meet traveling and seemed smart. This system worked well,<br>>>> until we moved.<br>>>><br>>>> In another life I worked at a video game store. Anyone<br>
>>> who's done retail<br>>>> knows the rule about greeting people. You try to say hi<br>>>> to every single<br>>>> person who comes in through the front door before they<br>
>>> can have a chance<br>>>> to look at any merchandise or get to the front counter,<br>>>> create dialog<br>>>> with them. All this not to help them with finding<br>
>>> whatever crap it was<br>>>> that they want, but to make them understand that people<br>>>> working in the<br>>>> shop know they're present. It's the first step in loss<br>
>>> prevention, if<br>>>> you know someone's already spotted you coming through the<br>>>> front door,<br>>>> the chances of you stealing something drastically goes<br>
>>> down. Think about<br>>>> it the next couple of times you walk into a retail store,<br>>>> even the big<br>>>> ones will tend to have someone right at the door to say<br>
>>> hi to you.<br>>>><br>>>> We're now at a new space. None of our doors really have<br>>>> locks. We've got<br>>>> this crazy system that buzzes people in without ever<br>
>>> really having<br>>>> someone greet them, might as well just leave the gate<br>>>> open 24/7. We are<br>>>> a public space. You walk in, make no social connection to<br>
>>> anyone there,<br>>>> the things in the space have no ties to anyone you've<br>>>> met, they're up<br>>>> for the picking, you take what you want, you leave.<br>
>>><br>>>> Those of us here who've stolen goods (in a past life)<br>>>> know this, this is<br>>>> how we think. It's harder to steal from an individual<br>
>>> than it is to<br>>>> steal from a faceless entity.<br>>>><br>>>> In my opinion, lockers acknowledge that some people feel<br>>>> there's a theft<br>
>>> problem at Noisebridge, and they have to keep their own<br>>>> personal crown<br>>>> jewels in a safe, much in the same way the good liquor<br>>>> and cigarets are<br>
>>> locked inside a glass case. They know theft is going to<br>>>> happen, they<br>>>> just don't want it to happen to those things. Stuff will<br>>>> still get stolen.<br>
>>><br>>>> I feel the right solution to this is to make thieves<br>>>> understand what the<br>>>> space is, what people are doing in the space, and that if<br>
>>> they are here<br>>>> for theft, they are stealing from good people, people<br>>>> active in the<br>>>> space. That they're aren't simply walking into a nameless<br>
>>> department<br>>>> store, they're walking into a community space filled with<br>>>> people similar<br>>>> to them.<br>>>><br>
>>> My suggestion for a long while has been to get rid of the<br>>>> automatic buzz<br>>>> in system, and to put in place locks to the door at the<br>>>> top of the<br>
>>> stairs and to door off the elevator room. Part of being<br>>>> in the space is<br>>>> helping it out right? If people want to come in you have<br>>>> to let them in.<br>
>>> If you don't feel like letting people in, don't. The<br>>>> notion of gifting a<br>>>> key to someone becomes more worth while again (the act is<br>
>>> very much a<br>>>> symbol outside of The Bay Area to people who still<br>>>> haven't been to the<br>>>> space it's like gold, but since we buzz in everyone,<br>
>>> locals don't give a<br>>>> shit), because you trust that person enough to give<br>>>> him/her a copy. When<br>>>> you hold a key, you understand who hold access to a place<br>
>>> that's<br>>>> accepted you to share it.<br>>>><br>>>> In my experience, fixing social problems tend to last<br>>>> longer and work<br>
>>> stronger than creating physical workaround (which are<br>>>> easier to break<br>>>> and hack, like lockers).<br>>>><br>>>> But then again I've been preaching this fucking idea for<br>
>>> so long with no<br>>>> one really biting due to laziness to not really want to<br>>>> getup and answer<br>>>> the door and a lack of social backbone to greet new<br>
>>> people coming into a<br>>>> space you share with your community, at this point I<br>>>> suppose that I must<br>>>> be the one with the wrong ideas and concepts here and<br>
>>> that I really<br>>>> don't have any comprehension on how the mind of thief<br>>>> works...<br>>>><br>>>> --<br>>>> Rubin<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a>><br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
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>>> -- <br>>>> Ronald Cotoni<br>>>> Systems Engineer<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>
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