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This sounds pretty good, but it does exclude
potentially-highly-excellent foreign visitors who don't have a
working US phone number. I think we want there to be *some* sort of
doorbell. <br>
<br>
My personal opinion is that the doorbell (the thing that makes makes
the annoying nose) should only function from 9a-10p. I think the
door button shouldn't work at all.<br>
<br>
<br>
On 9/20/2011 16:00, Gian Pablo Villamil wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAN5pc7kR+zuZRHn4Lgy-SyQQLK9cfR4x-2QaGMVTZBp3Y1YrbA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">Why not just disable the doorbell entirely?
<div><br>
</div>
<div>If someone wants to get in, they either a) have a key b) the
phone number of someone in the space who they know or c) the
number of the Cisco IP phone. The latter can be easily found by
going online, and forces interaction with someone (the person
who answers the phone).
<div>
<br>
</div>
<div>Someone with a track record of proven excellence can be
given a key - even if they are not a member.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 12:03 PM,
Casey Callendrello <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:c1@caseyc.net">c1@caseyc.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000"> A few thoughts. I'm
just brainstorming here, and welcome comment.<br>
<br>
First of all, I highly discourage use of the doorbell as
a regular means of access. I have personally made it
very easy to open the gate via cellphone, and I have a
more-secure and even-simpler method in the works. I have
put my do-ocratic capital where my mouth is, as it were.<br>
<br>
What if we disable the doorbell entirely during certain
hours?<br>
<br>
What if we disable the door button? During certain
hours? To let a guest in, you have to walk down to the
street, greet them, and open the door.<br>
<font color="#888888"> <br>
--Casey</font>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 09/20/2011 11:49 AM, Ronald Cotoni wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">I agree with rubin. This
makes a lot of sense and would completely solve
this problem and prevent others. On nights like 5
minutes of fame, we could just leave the doors
open, if neccessary. For other nights and times
of the day we could just let people in. I am a
bit worried about doors near the elevator since we
would need to make sure the 2nd floor people can
still get to it and ensuring handicapped access. <br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at
9:19 AM, Rameen <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:emprameen@gmail.com"
target="_blank">emprameen@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204);padding-left:1ex"> I agree with Rubin,
and a lot of other people. <br>
<br>
Moreover, I'm extremely impressed by everyone
who is presenting ideas and contributing. <br>
I think it's important to point out, this is a
do-ocracy and whatever physical alterations
occur in the space, are generally approved by
the people who are regularly at the space and
actually do stuff. If not, those people tend
to un-do those things, because sometimes the
public understands what's good for itself. No
one owns the space, but we all make it to
benefit each other, as well as ourselves. <br>
<br>
This entire thread is pretty astonishing to
me. You guys are amazing!<br>
<br>
I love Noisebridge a lot, and would be sad if
it wasn't as easy for others to access the
space as I have been able to. I probably
wouldn't have been around to help found the
delicious Tastebridge, otherwise!<br>
<br>
I think we should implement some of the easier
solutions, like Rubin's simple (yet powerful)
social approach. A change in mentality, as
someone sort-of pointed out, could be
something to consider-- don't leave your
valuable things lying around in a public space
for anyone to pick up. It's less likely
someone is going to try to wheel your robot
out of NB than a phone or slender laptop, and
it does happen, but be CAREFUL. Everyone wants
the space to be safe and open, but some
extreme instances of personal material loss
shouldn't be cause to change Noisebridge's
radical acceptance policy. Even Jake, who
started this thread, has good solutions that
won't necessarily compromise a lot of the
openness and public excellence that DOES
exist!<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Sun, Sep 18, 2011 at 2:56 PM,
Rubin Abdi <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rubin@starset.net"
target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204,
204);padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div> $0.02<br>
<br>
At the old space, 83c, we had a front
door. This door was always locked<br>
on the outside. If someone rang the
doorbell it was up to someone inside<br>
to get up and let them in. In doing so
they would meet the person. It<br>
was great, until people didn't want to
get up every 5 minutes to let<br>
people in. Some of us started handing
out keys to those who seemed smart<br>
and would come by often. Some of us
gave out keys to people we would<br>
meet traveling and seemed smart. This
system worked well, until we moved.<br>
<br>
In another life I worked at a video
game store. Anyone who's done retail<br>
knows the rule about greeting people.
You try to say hi to every single<br>
person who comes in through the front
door before they can have a chance<br>
to look at any merchandise or get to
the front counter, create dialog<br>
with them. All this not to help them
with finding whatever crap it was<br>
that they want, but to make them
understand that people working in the<br>
shop know they're present. It's the
first step in loss prevention, if<br>
you know someone's already spotted you
coming through the front door,<br>
the chances of you stealing something
drastically goes down. Think about<br>
it the next couple of times you walk
into a retail store, even the big<br>
ones will tend to have someone right
at the door to say hi to you.<br>
<br>
We're now at a new space. None of our
doors really have locks. We've got<br>
this crazy system that buzzes people
in without ever really having<br>
someone greet them, might as well just
leave the gate open 24/7. We are<br>
a public space. You walk in, make no
social connection to anyone there,<br>
the things in the space have no ties
to anyone you've met, they're up<br>
for the picking, you take what you
want, you leave.<br>
<br>
Those of us here who've stolen goods
(in a past life) know this, this is<br>
how we think. It's harder to steal
from an individual than it is to<br>
steal from a faceless entity.<br>
<br>
In my opinion, lockers acknowledge
that some people feel there's a theft<br>
problem at Noisebridge, and they have
to keep their own personal crown<br>
jewels in a safe, much in the same way
the good liquor and cigarets are<br>
locked inside a glass case. They know
theft is going to happen, they<br>
just don't want it to happen to those
things. Stuff will still get stolen.<br>
<br>
I feel the right solution to this is
to make thieves understand what the<br>
space is, what people are doing in the
space, and that if they are here<br>
for theft, they are stealing from good
people, people active in the<br>
space. That they're aren't simply
walking into a nameless department<br>
store, they're walking into a
community space filled with people
similar<br>
to them.<br>
<br>
My suggestion for a long while has
been to get rid of the automatic buzz<br>
in system, and to put in place locks
to the door at the top of the<br>
stairs and to door off the elevator
room. Part of being in the space is<br>
helping it out right? If people want
to come in you have to let them in.<br>
If you don't feel like letting people
in, don't. The notion of gifting a<br>
key to someone becomes more worth
while again (the act is very much a<br>
symbol outside of The Bay Area to
people who still haven't been to the<br>
space it's like gold, but since we
buzz in everyone, locals don't give a<br>
shit), because you trust that person
enough to give him/her a copy. When<br>
you hold a key, you understand who
hold access to a place that's<br>
accepted you to share it.<br>
<br>
In my experience, fixing social
problems tend to last longer and work<br>
stronger than creating physical
workaround (which are easier to break<br>
and hack, like lockers).<br>
<br>
But then again I've been preaching
this fucking idea for so long with no<br>
one really biting due to laziness to
not really want to getup and answer<br>
the door and a lack of social backbone
to greet new people coming into a<br>
space you share with your community,
at this point I suppose that I must<br>
be the one with the wrong ideas and
concepts here and that I really<br>
don't have any comprehension on how
the mind of thief works...<br>
<font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Rubin<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:rubin@starset.net"
target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a><br>
<br>
</font><br>
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<br>
<br clear="all">
<div><br>
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-- <br>
Ronald Cotoni
<div>Systems Engineer</div>
<br>
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