<font face="arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Read it. It sounds like bullying. I didn't see that Cynthia did anything wrong. She just showed up, and people took offense to that. That is bullshit.</font><br><br>Look, there is a very good chance that I am going to bring non-hackers in to noisebridge. I may even hang out with them, there. If I am supposed to worry about the qualifications of every single person I invite in to noisebridge, noisebridge is going to suffer from the lack of diversity.<br>
<br>People. This is a lonely person picked on by people who judge her. Tell me she's the only person that has ever happened to.<br><br>Guess what? Noisebridge is a play ground, and now we have our own bullies.<br><br>
Fuck...that...noise.<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:52 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com" target="_blank">jim@systemateka.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Why?<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Thu, 2012-05-03 at 17:42 -0700, Corey McGuire wrote:<br>
> OK, I read the meeting notes. This...is...in fact...bullshit.<br>
><br>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> Joe, I have no idea who you are. As far as I know, I've never<br>
> seen you there. Who's the troll?<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner<br>
> <<a href="mailto:doomvox@gmail.com">doomvox@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Uh huh. And when people aren't actually willing to<br>
> show their face to<br>
> talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet<br>
> troll that<br>
> doesn't need to be taken seriously.<br>
><br>
> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org">jake@spaz.org</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > yes because whenever people say something is too<br>
> horrible to possibly<br>
> > discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about<br>
> everything else, it just<br>
> > sounds like there's really nothing to say and<br>
> they're trying to cover the<br>
> > lack of justification for what they did with<br>
> secrecy.<br>
> ><br>
> > let's hear it.<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> >> The people who were actually there and made the<br>
> call, did not want to<br>
> >> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the<br>
> meeting.<br>
> >><br>
> >> Would hashing things out a second time here, for<br>
> the people who don't<br>
> >> go to meetings, actually help in any way?<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire<br>
> <<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>><br>
> >> wrote:<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Irony is lost on this one.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of<br>
> FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or<br>
> >>> SATAN<br>
> >>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Feynman, help us.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions<br>
> are making noisebridge<br>
> >>>> look bad. and getting the police to come over.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea<br>
> what she did wrong.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra<br>
> hospodar<br>
> >>>>> <<a href="mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com">rachelyra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> The last time I talked to her about it,<br>
> Erica was no longer<br>
> >>>>> feeling<br>
> >>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her<br>
> she wasn't<br>
> >>>>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> This after she had to ask him to stop<br>
> calling her at 3am.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> R.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake"<br>
> <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>> I couldn't have said it better<br>
> myself.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling<br>
> welcome?<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> I have to say, I have noticed that<br>
> some people (including<br>
> >>>>> Jesse for sure)<br>
> >>>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction<br>
> that we could swing<br>
> >>>>> around<br>
> >>>>> into the<br>
> >>>>> reactionary zone after we started<br>
> dealing with the<br>
> >>>>> occupiers.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Please re-read the below and let's<br>
> not make the same<br>
> >>>>> mistakes<br>
> >>>>> again.<br>
> >>>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT<br>
> and shows bad judgement<br>
> >>>>> on<br>
> >>>>> the part of<br>
> >>>>> the people who did it.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if<br>
> a couple of female<br>
> >>>>> members told them<br>
> >>>>> to leave?<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Carl said:<br>
> >>>>> You know I don't post here all that<br>
> much, but I really felt<br>
> >>>>> that I had<br>
> >>>>> to respond to this...<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> I've read through all of the comments<br>
> about what transpired<br>
> >>>>> with<br>
> >>>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the<br>
> meeting notes.<br>
> >>>>> Although<br>
> >>>>> I haven't<br>
> >>>>> been present at Noisebridge during<br>
> the past week, from what<br>
> >>>>> I've read so<br>
> >>>>> far, I am really not pleased about<br>
> how people involved in<br>
> >>>>> this<br>
> >>>>> situation<br>
> >>>>> treated her. (This would include<br>
> Jesse, Will, and<br>
> >>>>> apparently<br>
> >>>>> a third<br>
> >>>>> man.)<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> First of all, calling the police<br>
> really should not be done<br>
> >>>>> unless:<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening<br>
> harm to another person,<br>
> >>>>> causing<br>
> >>>>> damage to the space, stealing, or<br>
> otherwise causing trouble<br>
> >>>>> or<br>
> >>>>> performing an illegal activity.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> 2. A person who has been officially<br>
> banned from the space<br>
> >>>>> refuses to<br>
> >>>>> leave. And by "official", I mean a<br>
> due process has been<br>
> >>>>> followed<br>
> >>>>> whereas a previous discussion and<br>
> consensus was taken to ban<br>
> >>>>> a<br>
> >>>>> particular person.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge<br>
> community are unable to<br>
> >>>>> handle the<br>
> >>>>> situation on our own should we get<br>
> the police involved.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> I find it troubling when individuals<br>
> take it upon themselves<br>
> >>>>> to forcibly<br>
> >>>>> remove people from the space, who by<br>
> all accounts of what<br>
> >>>>> I've<br>
> >>>>> read, did<br>
> >>>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being<br>
> asked to leave. I<br>
> >>>>> believe it was<br>
> >>>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done<br>
> what they did in this<br>
> >>>>> case, prior<br>
> >>>>> to taking it up at a meeting where<br>
> the members could discuss<br>
> >>>>> and make a<br>
> >>>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia<br>
> from the space, AND<br>
> >>>>> ONLY<br>
> >>>>> AFTER<br>
> >>>>> this discussion and consensus would<br>
> it be appropriate to ask<br>
> >>>>> someone to<br>
> >>>>> not return. (and as she brought up,<br>
> informing her of this<br>
> >>>>> could have<br>
> >>>>> been done through email prior to her<br>
> arrival in order to<br>
> >>>>> avoid<br>
> >>>>> this<br>
> >>>>> confrontation.)<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> I am also troubled by the flippant<br>
> and immature responses on<br>
> >>>>> this list<br>
> >>>>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her<br>
> past talk of legal actions<br>
> >>>>> against<br>
> >>>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on<br>
> what transpired. As<br>
> >>>>> far<br>
> >>>>> as I can<br>
> >>>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people<br>
> than prior to when the<br>
> >>>>> Oogles started<br>
> >>>>> arriving at the space. The first<br>
> time Noisebridge ever<br>
> >>>>> banned<br>
> >>>>> anyone,<br>
> >>>>> it took considerable discussion and a<br>
> consensus process.<br>
> >>>>> Nowadays it<br>
> >>>>> seems like any member can just ban<br>
> anyone they don't like.<br>
> >>>>> How and why<br>
> >>>>> did we get to this point? And I'm<br>
> not just talking about<br>
> >>>>> Cynthia here,<br>
> >>>>> but others as well. (take Erica for<br>
> example, who no longer<br>
> >>>>> feels<br>
> >>>>> welcome here.)<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop<br>
> this witch-hunt<br>
> >>>>> non-hacker<br>
> >>>>> hate<br>
> >>>>> mentality that we seem to be<br>
> developing here, which will<br>
> >>>>> only<br>
> >>>>> drive away<br>
> >>>>> new people who may not be familiar<br>
> with hacker culture. If<br>
> >>>>> we<br>
> >>>>> try to<br>
> >>>>> make an effort to become friends with<br>
> them, then we can<br>
> >>>>> encourage<br>
> >>>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to<br>
> become hackers by<br>
> >>>>> involving them<br>
> >>>>> with our projects. Instead of<br>
> rejecting them, we should be<br>
> >>>>> trying to<br>
> >>>>> encourage them to become productive<br>
> participants in our<br>
> >>>>> community.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> -Carl<br>
> >>>>><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> >>>>><br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> >>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >>>>><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> --<br>
> >>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,<br>
> but no simpler -<br>
> >>>>> Albert<br>
> >>>>> Einstein<br>
> >>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -<br>
> Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
> >>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing<br>
> left to add, but when<br>
> >>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de<br>
> Saint Exup?ry<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>> --<br>
> >>> Everything should be made as simple as possible,<br>
> but no simpler - Albert<br>
> >>> Einstein<br>
> >>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication -<br>
> Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
> >>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing<br>
> left to add, but when<br>
> >>> there<br>
> >>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint<br>
> Exup?ry<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
> >>><br>
> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >>><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> >>><br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no<br>
> simpler - Albert Einstein<br>
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
><br>
> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add,<br>
> but when there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint<br>
> Exupéry<br>
><br>
> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -<br>
> Albert Einstein<br>
> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when<br>
> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exupéry<br>
> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein" title="Albert Einstein" target="_blank">Albert Einstein</a><br>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci" title="Leonardo Da Vinci" target="_blank">Leonardo Da Vinci</a><br>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry" title="Antoine de Saint Exupéry" target="_blank">Antoine de Saint Exupéry</a><br>
Keep It Simple Stupid - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson" title="Clarence Johnson" target="_blank">Kelly Johnson</a><br>