Hi to all:<div><br></div><div>Having dealt with her personally she is a troubled soul. She needs help but Noisebridge is not the place for her.</div><div><br></div><div>-- <br>Sincerely, <div><br></div><div>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck </div>
<div><br></div><div>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker </div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org/" target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a> </div><div><br></div><div>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi</div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:42 PM, Corey McGuire <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com" target="_blank">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
OK, I read the meeting notes. This...is...in fact...bullshit.<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Corey McGuire <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com" target="_blank">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Joe, I have no idea who you are. As far as I know, I've never seen you there. Who's the troll?<div><div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Joseph Brenner <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:doomvox@gmail.com" target="_blank">doomvox@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Uh huh. And when people aren't actually willing to show their face to<br>
talk something out, they sound a lot like an internet troll that<br>
doesn't need to be taken seriously.<br>
<div><div><br>
On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Jake <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> yes because whenever people say something is too horrible to possibly<br>
> discuss in an open listserve, where we talk about everything else, it just<br>
> sounds like there's really nothing to say and they're trying to cover the<br>
> lack of justification for what they did with secrecy.<br>
><br>
> let's hear it.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Joseph Brenner wrote:<br>
><br>
>> The people who were actually there and made the call, did not want to<br>
>> discuss it on list, they wanted to save it for the meeting.<br>
>><br>
>> Would hashing things out a second time here, for the people who don't<br>
>> go to meetings, actually help in any way?<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:58 PM, Corey McGuire <<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com" target="_blank">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Irony is lost on this one.<br>
>>><br>
>>> How about this, "Will someone, for the love of FUCKING GOD or ALLAH or<br>
>>> SATAN<br>
>>> or STALLMAN tell me what the fuck she did wrong?"<br>
>>><br>
>>> Feynman, help us.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 4:40 PM, Jake <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> except that it's not funny, and Jesse's actions are making noisebridge<br>
>>>> look bad. and getting the police to come over.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, 3 May 2012, Corey McGuire wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> You know...it's funny. I still have no idea what she did wrong.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, May 3, 2012 at 3:43 PM, rachel lyra hospodar<br>
>>>>> <<a href="mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com" target="_blank">rachelyra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The last time I talked to her about it, Erica was no longer<br>
>>>>> feeling<br>
>>>>> welcome because Jesse (the same jesse) told her she wasn't<br>
>>>>> enough of a hacker and she should leave.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> This after she had to ask him to stop calling her at 3am.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> R.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On May 3, 2012 3:02 PM, "Jake" <<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>> I couldn't have said it better myself.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Why is Erica no longer feeling welcome?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I have to say, I have noticed that some people (including<br>
>>>>> Jesse for sure)<br>
>>>>> seem to be fulfilling my prediction that we could swing<br>
>>>>> around<br>
>>>>> into the<br>
>>>>> reactionary zone after we started dealing with the<br>
>>>>> occupiers.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Please re-read the below and let's not make the same<br>
>>>>> mistakes<br>
>>>>> again.<br>
>>>>> Calling the police is a LAST RESORT and shows bad judgement<br>
>>>>> on<br>
>>>>> the part of<br>
>>>>> the people who did it.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> What would Jesse or Will have done if a couple of female<br>
>>>>> members told them<br>
>>>>> to leave?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Carl said:<br>
>>>>> You know I don't post here all that much, but I really felt<br>
>>>>> that I had<br>
>>>>> to respond to this...<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I've read through all of the comments about what transpired<br>
>>>>> with<br>
>>>>> Cynthia, on the discuss list and the meeting notes.<br>
>>>>> Although<br>
>>>>> I haven't<br>
>>>>> been present at Noisebridge during the past week, from what<br>
>>>>> I've read so<br>
>>>>> far, I am really not pleased about how people involved in<br>
>>>>> this<br>
>>>>> situation<br>
>>>>> treated her. (This would include Jesse, Will, and<br>
>>>>> apparently<br>
>>>>> a third<br>
>>>>> man.)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> First of all, calling the police really should not be done<br>
>>>>> unless:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 1. Someone is harming or threatening harm to another person,<br>
>>>>> causing<br>
>>>>> damage to the space, stealing, or otherwise causing trouble<br>
>>>>> or<br>
>>>>> performing an illegal activity.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 2. A person who has been officially banned from the space<br>
>>>>> refuses to<br>
>>>>> leave. And by "official", I mean a due process has been<br>
>>>>> followed<br>
>>>>> whereas a previous discussion and consensus was taken to ban<br>
>>>>> a<br>
>>>>> particular person.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> 3. AND ONLY AFTER the Noisebridge community are unable to<br>
>>>>> handle the<br>
>>>>> situation on our own should we get the police involved.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I find it troubling when individuals take it upon themselves<br>
>>>>> to forcibly<br>
>>>>> remove people from the space, who by all accounts of what<br>
>>>>> I've<br>
>>>>> read, did<br>
>>>>> NOT cause any trouble prior to being asked to leave. I<br>
>>>>> believe it was<br>
>>>>> wrong for Jesse and Will to have done what they did in this<br>
>>>>> case, prior<br>
>>>>> to taking it up at a meeting where the members could discuss<br>
>>>>> and make a<br>
>>>>> decision as to whether to ban Cynthia from the space, AND<br>
>>>>> ONLY<br>
>>>>> AFTER<br>
>>>>> this discussion and consensus would it be appropriate to ask<br>
>>>>> someone to<br>
>>>>> not return. (and as she brought up, informing her of this<br>
>>>>> could have<br>
>>>>> been done through email prior to her arrival in order to<br>
>>>>> avoid<br>
>>>>> this<br>
>>>>> confrontation.)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I am also troubled by the flippant and immature responses on<br>
>>>>> this list<br>
>>>>> about Cynthia being "crazy". Her past talk of legal actions<br>
>>>>> against<br>
>>>>> Texas corporations has no bearing on what transpired. As<br>
>>>>> far<br>
>>>>> as I can<br>
>>>>> tell, she hasn't forng more people than prior to when the<br>
>>>>> Oogles started<br>
>>>>> arriving at the space. The first time Noisebridge ever<br>
>>>>> banned<br>
>>>>> anyone,<br>
>>>>> it took considerable discussion and a consensus process.<br>
>>>>> Nowadays it<br>
>>>>> seems like any member can just ban anyone they don't like.<br>
>>>>> How and why<br>
>>>>> did we get to this point? And I'm not just talking about<br>
>>>>> Cynthia here,<br>
>>>>> but others as well. (take Erica for example, who no longer<br>
>>>>> feels<br>
>>>>> welcome here.)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> And lastly, I think we need to stop this witch-hunt<br>
>>>>> non-hacker<br>
>>>>> hate<br>
>>>>> mentality that we seem to be developing here, which will<br>
>>>>> only<br>
>>>>> drive away<br>
>>>>> new people who may not be familiar with hacker culture. If<br>
>>>>> we<br>
>>>>> try to<br>
>>>>> make an effort to become friends with them, then we can<br>
>>>>> encourage<br>
>>>>> newcomers to contribute and learn to become hackers by<br>
>>>>> involving them<br>
>>>>> with our projects. Instead of rejecting them, we should be<br>
>>>>> trying to<br>
>>>>> encourage them to become productive participants in our<br>
>>>>> community.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -Carl<br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> --<br>
>>>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler -<br>
>>>>> Albert<br>
>>>>> Einstein<br>
>>>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
>>>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when<br>
>>>>> there is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
>>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>> Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - Albert<br>
>>> Einstein<br>
>>> Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo Da Vinci<br>
>>> Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when<br>
>>> there<br>
>>> is nothing left to take away - Antoine de Saint Exup?ry<br>
>>><br>
>>> Keep It Simple Stupid - Kelly Johnson<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein" title="Albert Einstein" target="_blank">Albert Einstein</a><br>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci" title="Leonardo Da Vinci" target="_blank">Leonardo Da Vinci</a><br></div></div>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry" title="Antoine de Saint Exupéry" target="_blank">Antoine de Saint Exupéry</a><div>
<div><br>
Keep It Simple Stupid - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson" title="Clarence Johnson" target="_blank">Kelly Johnson</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein" title="Albert Einstein" target="_blank">Albert Einstein</a><br>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci" title="Leonardo Da Vinci" target="_blank">Leonardo Da Vinci</a><br>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry" title="Antoine de Saint Exupéry" target="_blank">Antoine de Saint Exupéry</a><br>
Keep It Simple Stupid - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson" title="Clarence Johnson" target="_blank">Kelly Johnson</a><br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Sincerely, <div><br></div><div>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck </div><div><br></div><div>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker </div><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org" target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a> </div>
<div><br></div><div>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Ghandi</div><br>
</div>