# +1<br><br>end comments<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 17, 2012 at 12:30 AM, Eric W. Rasmussen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com" target="_blank">ewr@majortek.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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I love your pup. She looks menacing on appearance but gives great
love upon contact.<br>
<br>
You have my support.<br>
<br>
On 09/16/2012 10:15 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:
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<td style="font:inherit" valign="top">There are several
people here, two of whom were recently "confronted" on
their dog being at Noisebridge, who bring their dog with
them because they do not have anyone to watch their dog
for them, and are not allowed to leave the dog at home
unsupervised. Their dog has been quiet, friendly, and has
not caused a mess. Yes, the dog is large, but usually just
sits under the table. On one occasion, the dog did whine,
but that was because she did see me walk into the space
and wanted to say hello.<br>
<br>
However, the original poster stated the problem as if each
and every large dog is a vicious man-killer just waiting
to go off. Suddenly, the subject switched to breathing
issues. And yes, if a person "can't breathe" due to a dog
being present, then their allergies or asthma will be
severe enough to be similarly affected by dust and other
animal dander, not to mention chemical fumes.<br>
<br>
- Mik McAllister<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sun, 9/16/12, Gopiballava Flaherty <i><a href="mailto:gopiballava@gmail.com" target="_blank"><gopiballava@gmail.com></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
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From: Gopiballava Flaherty <a href="mailto:gopiballava@gmail.com" target="_blank"><gopiballava@gmail.com></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Dogs<br>
To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
Date: Sunday, September 16, 2012, 9:35 PM<br>
<br>
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On Sep 16, 2012, at 3:50 PM, Mitchel McAllister <<a href="http://mc/compose?to=xonimmortal@yahoo.com" target="_blank">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
> I have yet to see anyone who has a problem
breathing around dogs actually weigh in on this
subject. It's hard to gauge how many people are
affected this way, if none of them actually speak up.<br>
<br>
My wife no longer goes to NB because of the dogs.<br>
<br>
I think we need to hear from somebody who brings their
dog to NB, or who feels the *personal* desire to have
dogs there - not merely people defending the rights of
others to bring dogs.<br>
<br>
We *know* that there are some people who have problems
going to NB due to dogs. I think we need to
understand, from the people who want to bring their
dogs there, how much this would inconvenience them or
how much less pleasant their hacking experience would
be.<br>
<br>
(I'm not being facetious - I've never owned a dog, so
I am not good at understanding the emotional or
practical issues of how you feel about having your dog
with your or about how most people cope with the fact
that dogs are banned in many places.)<br>
<br>
> I am allergic to dust and pet dander. My sinuses
are also irritated by certain chemical fumes. However,
that is *my* problem, not Noisebridge's.<br>
<br>
So: Noisebridge should not do anything to make the
space more suited for anybody? Ever? Of course not.
There has to be balance.<br>
<br>
I think that comparing the fumes and chemicals emitted
by hacking to the allergens emitted by dogs is an
unreasonable comparison. Noisebridge is a
*hackerspace*. There will be the airborne results of
hacking, or else it will be an *extremely* limited
hacking space.<br>
<br>
Dogs and other (non-service) companion animals make
the place more pleasant for some hackers, but they
aren't related to the core purpose of the space.<br>
<br>
Here's a thought experiment: If somebody started
hacking with a chemical that made, say, 1/3 of people
gag but 2/3 of people didn't even notice, would that
be acceptable? (Assuming it was not killing people of
course). I'd like to think that it would be something
that needed long discussion and would have a high
chance of being severely restricted because chasing
people away is really not very excellent.<br>
<br>
Where would you draw the line? That's the question.
But I really think there is a line between letting
people do anything they want, and not chasing people
away.<br>
<br>
> I am not going to demand that Noisebridge
implement twice-daily cleanings to take care of dust.<br>
<br>
No, and neither is anybody else. Just because somebody
can demand that you take *unreasonable* measures to
accommodate their needs doesn't mean that you should
do *nothing*.<br>
<br>
> Yes, I, a person allergic to dog dander, am
defending the presence of dogs in the space. I made
the decision a long time ago to cope with it, because
I enjoy the presence of dogs and other furry
creatures.<br>
<br>
You are aware that some people are more allergic than
yourself, yes?<br>
<br>
> You also completely disregarded my point
regarding the presence of other allergens in the space
which exceeds the quantity of dog allergens in the
space. I'm going to give you the benefit of a doubt
and assume that was inadvertent. I look forward to
seeing you correct this lapse.<br>
<br>
You made an assertion, not a point. You surely know
that people can have different levels of allergic
reactions to different compounds, yes? Quantity
doesn't matter as much as reaction level.<br>
<br>
You also seem to be implying that banning dogs would
not significantly help dog-allergic people because the
dust is terrible enough to keep them out. Is that
correct? If that is what you are claiming, and it's
true, then really no further discussion is needed on
the topic. However, I don't think you're right for
most dog-allergic people.<div class="im"><br>
<br>
<br>
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