I knew this would happen. I'm not trying to dismiss the problem. She may have very well have been assaulted and that should be taken very seriously. But it's also possible that this could have been a misunderstanding but with such a limited description it's impossible to tell. That's why i merely asked for more information and whether or not she felt it could possibly have been an accident or if the guy up and full palmed her breast and walked away. If my post was somehow interpreted as being unfair and erring on the side of "nothing happened, move along" then i apologize as that was not my intention. Sexual assault is very serious and as such i feel it should be handled as thoroughly as possible without jumping to any conclusions be they full on trust or incredulity.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:17 PM, Liz Henry <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:liz@bookmaniac.org" target="_blank">liz@bookmaniac.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Everfalling:<br>
<br>
I don't think this is an appropriate question. If I ever have a similar<br>
thing happen to me at the space, I would be very uncomfortable being<br>
cross examined about it and having my own judgment of what happened<br>
dismissed. That is what you just did to Susan and it is really wrong,<br>
and embarrassing. Yet it is what women inevitably face when they try<br>
to report sexual harassment and assault. And then when we don't report<br>
it and simply go away, everyone wonders why and faults us for that. A<br>
situation I certainly HAVE faced many times and probably will again in life.<br>
<br>
Whoever you are Ever Falling, could you talk to me in person some time?<br>
I would discuss the issues if you want to have some sort of discussion,<br>
but would prefer that to happen in person.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
<br>
Liz<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 10/20/12 10:59 PM, Ever Falling wrote:<br>
> For the sake of a fuller picture could you be specific about where you were<br>
> when you were touched, what the surroundings were like (crowded? were you<br>
> alone? sitting? standing?), and how much you feel like it was unmistakably<br>
> intentional and not accidental? Also could you be more specific about the<br>
> reactions of others around you afterward? Had they seen it happen and chose<br>
> to say nothing? Did they not see it but you tried bringing it up to them<br>
> and they ignored you? Do you have any description of the person who touched<br>
> you?<br>
><br>
> Not to at all take away from what might very well be an assault but on face<br>
> value your description of the events could be seen as an accidental grazing<br>
> due to the crowd and then, since it was an accident and no one else saw<br>
> this, everyone seemed to go about their business like nothing happened<br>
> because for all they know nothing did.<br>
><br>
> On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 7:31 PM, Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com">ewr@majortek.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Who was it? Describe them. I will take on this effort. Email me personally<br>
>> if needed.<br>
>><br>
>> You are correct that this has been an issue in the space. I, for one, try<br>
>> to invite more women into the space. Women bring a new prospective. I wish<br>
>> there were more children because they do the same.<br>
>><br>
>> Noisebridge is a learning establishment. It's not fair that you've learned<br>
>> aggression.<br>
>><br>
>> I personally apologize for the actions made against you. You can always<br>
>> call me to your attention if something disagreeable happens. I regret that<br>
>> I may not have been present.<br>
>><br>
>> Please don't give up on us. If you want to hand your key to me, I will<br>
>> hand it off to another woman and make sure she is safe. Or, I will hold it<br>
>> for you upon your return.<br>
>><br>
>> Please accept my apology on behalf of the collective.<br>
>><br>
>> ewr<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 10/20/2012 07:19 PM, Susan Werner wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> I went to hackmeet today, tried to join in a few conversations, and got<br>
>>> told<br>
>>> to fuck off because I don't already know people. As I was crying and<br>
>>> talking<br>
>>> to someone on the Internet about how these kinds of events are<br>
>>> intentionally<br>
>>> hostile to people who don't already have significant social connections,<br>
>>> some<br>
>>> guy walks by me, and rubs his hand on my right breast, and calmly walks<br>
>>> on as<br>
>>> if nothing happened.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I got groped while I was crying at noisebridge, during an event with lots<br>
>>> of<br>
>>> people at it, and nobody did anything. Nobody spoke a word to me. Nobody<br>
>>> offered any kind of help whatsoever, and lots of people walked by me, as<br>
>>> I was<br>
>>> there for about half an hour after that happened.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I'm done with noisebridge, done with its community which enables sexual<br>
>>> assault, done with events which are intentionally hostile to newcomers,<br>
>>> done<br>
>>> with all the bullshit about it being an "anarchist space" where nothing<br>
>>> can be<br>
>>> said about entitled jerks who make the space hostile for others.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Until someone works on the whole "hostility to newcomers" bit of hacker<br>
>>> culture, harassment will be endemic. As long as newcomers are seen as<br>
>>> people to<br>
>>> be excluded and hazed, no amount of non-harassment policies or codes of<br>
>>> conduct<br>
>>> will do anything substantial.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Kicking out the people who grope isn't enough and won't cause systemic<br>
>>> change.<br>
>>> Change the culture which encourages treating newcomers and outsiders like<br>
>>> shit,<br>
>>> and ignores anything anyone does to newcomers, don't just kick out people<br>
>>> who<br>
>>> further this sort of culture.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Have fun with your hackerspaces and your shitty-ass subculture based on<br>
>>> exclusion and abuse. I don't even need to talk to people like y'all and<br>
>>> I'm not<br>
>>> going to spend a moment of extra time with a bunch of people who can't<br>
>>> even<br>
>>> look at me after I get groped in front of fifteen people.<br>
>>><br>
>>> I have a key to noisebridge. If anyone wants it, let me know.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
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</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">--<br>
<br>
------------------------<br>
Liz Henry<br>
<a href="mailto:liz@bookmaniac.org">liz@bookmaniac.org</a><br>
<a href="http://bookmaniac.org" target="_blank">http://bookmaniac.org</a><br>
<br>
"Without models, it's hard to work; without a context, difficult to<br>
evaluate; without peers, nearly impossible to speak." -- Joanna Russ<br>
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