<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Oct 20, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Mitchel McAllister <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com" target="_blank">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top">It's not about me being kicked out.<br><br>It's about nobody asking the question, "Who are we kicking out?" with any honesty.<br>
<br>Yes,
I've listened to a number of members discussing who should and
shouldn't be allowed in. They weren't discussing individuals; they were
discussing <b>populations</b>. Entire groups of people being lumped together, as if there are no variations or differences within those groups.<br></td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><br>I'm almost certain that your model of who are members and who are not is wrong. It's very (deliberately) difficult to ascertain who are members. Identifying them by means of behaviour would be really hard. "Those who complain about other classes of people in the space", "those that assert that only people who pay money should have influence in the space", "those that assert that only members have influence in the space", or even "those who don't say thank you to other people doing work", are all really bad indicators.<br>
<br>For instance, the only person I know who has attempted to throw out everyone in the space who isn't a member, isn't a member.<br><br>d.<br> <br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font:inherit" valign="top"><br>Homeless people are discussed as if every single homeless person is a thief, drug user, defecating in corners, and panhandling.<br>
<br>People
with mental illness are demonized, as if there were no spectrum of
mental illness or differing conditions, as if even a diagnosis of mild
depression denotes a propensity for mindless violence against people and
property.<br><br>With these types of all-or-nothing attitudes, I'm surprised differently-abled
people are allowed in the space.<br><br>What's truly amazing is that
the people talking this way not only do so loudly enough to be heard by
most of the people in the space, but also never see the incongruity of
doing so under a sign that reads "Be excellent to each other."<br><br>- Reverend Mik<br><hr>YMMV - a postscript that assures the world that the poster has no intention of considering any refutation.<div class="im">
<br><br>--- On <b>Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <i><<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com" target="_blank">ewr@majortek.com</a>></i></b> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px">
<div class="im"><br>From: Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com" target="_blank">ewr@majortek.com</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent<br></div>To: "Mitchel McAllister" <<a href="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com" target="_blank">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:20 PM<div><div class="h5"><br><br><div>
<div>
Relax. No one is going to kick you out for not being a member. If
you take ownership of NB it's as good as being a member.<br>
<br>
Be a leader. Be a teacher.<br>
<br>
<div>On 10/20/2012 10:12 PM, Mitchel
McAllister wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<td style="font:inherit" valign="top">Well, the discussion
right now seems to be about excluding the power users.
Either we are only allowed to be in the space when there
is a public event or we are only allowed to be here when
there is a member present to supervise us.<br>
<br>
And it is not passive aggressive to state a fact. I have
been called a troll for posting to this and other
Noisebridge lists. <br>
<br>
- Reverend Mik<br>
<hr>The greatest crime against humanity is apologizing for
doing the right thing.<br>
<br>
--- On <b>Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <i><a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=ewr@majortek.com" target="_blank"><ewr@majortek.com></a></i></b>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;padding-left:5px"><br>
From: Eric W. Rasmussen <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=ewr@majortek.com" target="_blank"><ewr@majortek.com></a><br>
Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the
space/Being excellent<br>
To: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://mc/compose?to=noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 9:44 PM<br>
<br>
<div>
<div> You've made some excellent points but your last
comment was passive aggressive.<br>
<br>
I am not a member because I can not afford to be
one. If I had $80 a month, I would gladly give it.
However, being a Power User does not exclude me from
taking on the role of Member.<br>
<br>
Noisebridge does not have leadership. This is a
Do-ocracy.<br>
<br>
If you see a problem, fix it. Use the materials
available. Improvise. This is the "Maker" mantra.
Credit is not due to those that perform good deeds.
No one is looked upon with a higher gratitude
because they help others.<br>
<br>
Noisebridge is altruism.<br>
<br>
If someone wants to paint and there are haters, fuck
them. If someone wants to use the kitchen and there
are haters, fuck them. If someone is giving false
information, intervene. Give tours when needed.<br>
<br>
You love Noisebridge, right? Take ownership.<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On
10/20/2012 09:03 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:<br>
</div>
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<td style="font:inherit" valign="top">I've
been sharing what's being discussed by a
few regulars in the space, or as Danny
called us once, "power users".<br>
<br>
Understand that these are people who
regularly chip in to clean up or get
things put into a semblence of order
(especially after events). We wash dishes,
we take the trash out, we bring the bins
back in, we sweep the floors... We try to
not make waves, we try to help out when we
can. And right now, a couple of us have
been assisting Cliff in painting the
space.<br>
<br>
Yet, a few minutes or an hour after we do
things like this, someone will stomp
through the space, talking loudly about
how "those people" need to be kicked out
because "those people" never do a damned
thing around the space.<br>
<br>
Most of the people jumping in to fix
computers or other gadgets brought in by
visitors in the past two months have been
"power users". Throughout the day,
evening, and night, there are often times
where there are no members present - no
members to welcome newcomers, no members
to give visitors tours.<br>
<br>
Some of the other "power users" feel that
they can't come to the meetings to discuss
things that are going on. They feel that
they aren't allowed to speak up, because
they're not members. They feel they
shouldn't "bother" members by joining
conversations.<br>
<br>
And I have heard several people giving out
incorrect or misleading information on how
to become a member. "You have to
collaborate on a couple projects with real
members before you're allowed to put in an
application," has been one I've heard
several times.<br>
<br>
The amount of pure shit that happens when
there are no members present, or when
members are sequestered off by themselves,
is alarming. But if members don't approach
visitors or "power users" and actively
solicit feedback, get involved in
discussions, or at least try to get to
know them, it will continue, and probably
get worse.<br>
<br>
Yes, I know, I am considered a troll on
the discussion list. And because I am a
troll, nothing I have said has any
relevance or value. After all, it's easier
to dismiss me as a troll than actually
consider any points I may have made.<br>
<br>
- Reverend Mik<br>
<hr>It is impossible to wage war or commit
violence, unless you first prove the other
party is less human than you are. - Shane
Vassad<br>
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