<p>On Oct 20, 2012 11:07 PM, "Mitchel McAllister" <<a href="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> It's not about me being kicked out.<br>
><br>
> It's about nobody asking the question, "Who are we kicking out?" with any honesty.</p>
<p>Apparently it's also about making gross uninformed generalizations based on the behavior of a few people, and about disrupting a perennial conversation that is being viewed as threatening (seriously read the list archives, we talk about closing the space at night every 4-7 months. Then search the archives for discussion about the homeless. Then go outside and sit in the grass.)</p>
<p>I think it is possible to talk about changing our access culture, as long as we are comfortable being verbally attacked as we do so.</p>
<p>If we want to talk ever about clearing humans from the space and locking the doors, we do need to consider the logistical hurdle of doing so, especially if one person is the last *whatever qualifications required* present. </p>
<p>The only time I have ever seen noisebridge locked all the way was once two years ago, and someone immediately had to come back and unlock it because people's stuff was inside.</p>
<p>I really like having the codes be required to buzz people in, and i volunteer to help run wires if they are needed for that project!</p>
<p>We could make the codes required to disable anti-sleeping booby traps around the space! Random alarms that go off at night! Voice of Big Brother informing all of the closing of noisebridge at the stroke of midnight? Access badges with time-sensitive ink or electronics that have encoded expiry dates? Ooh, I did have a badge project I wanted to do. That would help with people's visibility too... Will have to search the archives...</p>
<p>R.</p>
<p>><br>
> Yes, I've listened to a number of members discussing who should and shouldn't be allowed in. They weren't discussing individuals; they were discussing populations. Entire groups of people being lumped together, as if there are no variations or differences within those groups.<br>
><br>
> Homeless people are discussed as if every single homeless person is a thief, drug user, defecating in corners, and panhandling.<br>
><br>
> People with mental illness are demonized, as if there were no spectrum of mental illness or differing conditions, as if even a diagnosis of mild depression denotes a propensity for mindless violence against people and property.<br>
><br>
> With these types of all-or-nothing attitudes, I'm surprised differently-abled people are allowed in the space.<br>
><br>
> What's truly amazing is that the people talking this way not only do so loudly enough to be heard by most of the people in the space, but also never see the incongruity of doing so under a sign that reads "Be excellent to each other."<br>
><br>
> - Reverend Mik<br>
> ________________________________<br>
> YMMV - a postscript that assures the world that the poster has no intention of considering any refutation.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --- On Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com">ewr@majortek.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com">ewr@majortek.com</a>><br>
>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent<br>
>> To: "Mitchel McAllister" <<a href="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>><br>
>> Cc: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 10:20 PM<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Relax. No one is going to kick you out for not being a member. If you take ownership of NB it's as good as being a member.<br>
>><br>
>> Be a leader. Be a teacher.<br>
>><br>
>> On 10/20/2012 10:12 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Well, the discussion right now seems to be about excluding the power users. Either we are only allowed to be in the space when there is a public event or we are only allowed to be here when there is a member present to supervise us.<br>
>>><br>
>>> And it is not passive aggressive to state a fact. I have been called a troll for posting to this and other Noisebridge lists. <br>
>>><br>
>>> - Reverend Mik<br>
>>> ________________________________<br>
>>> The greatest crime against humanity is apologizing for doing the right thing.<br>
>>><br>
>>> --- On Sat, 10/20/12, Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com">ewr@majortek.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> From: Eric W. Rasmussen <<a href="mailto:ewr@majortek.com">ewr@majortek.com</a>><br>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Closing the space/Being excellent<br>
>>>> To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>> Date: Saturday, October 20, 2012, 9:44 PM<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> You've made some excellent points but your last comment was passive aggressive.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I am not a member because I can not afford to be one. If I had $80 a month, I would gladly give it. However, being a Power User does not exclude me from taking on the role of Member.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Noisebridge does not have leadership. This is a Do-ocracy.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> If you see a problem, fix it. Use the materials available. Improvise. This is the "Maker" mantra. Credit is not due to those that perform good deeds. No one is looked upon with a higher gratitude because they help others.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Noisebridge is altruism.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> If someone wants to paint and there are haters, fuck them. If someone wants to use the kitchen and there are haters, fuck them. If someone is giving false information, intervene. Give tours when needed.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> You love Noisebridge, right? Take ownership.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 10/20/2012 09:03 PM, Mitchel McAllister wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I've been sharing what's being discussed by a few regulars in the space, or as Danny called us once, "power users".<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Understand that these are people who regularly chip in to clean up or get things put into a semblence of order (especially after events). We wash dishes, we take the trash out, we bring the bins back in, we sweep the floors... We try to not make waves, we try to help out when we can. And right now, a couple of us have been assisting Cliff in painting the space.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Yet, a few minutes or an hour after we do things like this, someone will stomp through the space, talking loudly about how "those people" need to be kicked out because "those people" never do a damned thing around the space.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Most of the people jumping in to fix computers or other gadgets brought in by visitors in the past two months have been "power users". Throughout the day, evening, and night, there are often times where there are no members present - no members to welcome newcomers, no members to give visitors tours.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Some of the other "power users" feel that they can't come to the meetings to discuss things that are going on. They feel that they aren't allowed to speak up, because they're not members. They feel they shouldn't "bother" members by joining conversations.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> And I have heard several people giving out incorrect or misleading information on how to become a member. "You have to collaborate on a couple projects with real members before you're allowed to put in an application," has been one I've heard several times.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> The amount of pure shit that happens when there are no members present, or when members are sequestered off by themselves, is alarming. But if members don't approach visitors or "power users" and actively solicit feedback, get involved in discussions, or at least try to get to know them, it will continue, and probably get worse.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Yes, I know, I am considered a troll on the discussion list. And because I am a troll, nothing I have said has any relevance or value. After all, it's easier to dismiss me as a troll than actually consider any points I may have made.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> - Reverend Mik<br>
>>>>> ________________________________<br>
>>>>> It is impossible to wage war or commit violence, unless you first prove the other party is less human than you are. - Shane Vassad<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
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>>>><br>
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