<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:bookman old style, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div><span>+ 1</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>By he way what Jim is saying seems quite familiar to me. At the end of the day it is the greeting of the new comers and investing the energy in to the community which makes the things work for our one. It takes time, it takes effort but to my knowledge the true and free determination to do something what is you believe in is more worthy than thousands of planned and scheduled actions no matter how I like them due to my German heritage and "Japanese
experience". </span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>It is the core and spirit which makes the community and of course the "jokers" who keep it running.</span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><br><span></span></div><div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: bookman old style,new york,times,serif; background-color: transparent; font-style: normal;"><span>Sincerely,</span></div><div> </div><div>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck<br><br></div><div>biotechnologist&kvasir and
hacker</div><br><br><div>http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</div><div><br><br></div><div>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi<br><br> <div style="font-family: bookman old style, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style="font-family: times new roman, new york, times, serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> jim <jim@well.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Martin Bogomolni <martinbogo@gmail.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Jake <jake@spaz.org>; "noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" <noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Friday, October 26, 2012 7:20 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] A modest proposal<br> </font>
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<br><br> I lived in a big warehouse community (Project 1) that <br>required members to perform tasks. At best about 50% <br>performed the tasks, at worst the number dropped to (my <br>guess) below 20%. At one point none of the toilets on the <br>second floor worked. A volunteer took the time to take <br>them apart and mate working parts to get four toilets in <br>working order. <br> Over time, the system degraded, ultimately to a <br>free-market economy state (tragedy of the commons). <br><br> An idea occurs that volunteering might work in the <br>form of earned "chits" (or however you spell the word) <br>that are created by a group working together on an ad <br>hoc project and who verify each others' efforts and <br>submit their group "chit" to the general Noisebridge <br>meeting; with enough "chit" credits individual can earn <br>membership status (no starving hacker rates for this). <br> The ad hoc
work crew would serve as the verifying <br>committee for itself, I believe that only a little <br>exaggeration would happen and that a bit of useful <br>work would be done at the price of letting one or more <br>people be able to vote in meetings. <br> I don't like the idea that someone takes on some <br>particular chores in exchange for membership rights. <br><br><br><br><br><br>On Thu, 2012-10-25 at 15:04 -0700, Martin Bogomolni wrote:<br>> > I wouldn't have suggested it if I didn't think there was a point. Your<br>> > question is phrased disingenuously but I'll honor its intent.<br>> <br>> You're right. I actually didn't mean to have that negative a tone.<br>> The way you took it, is pretty much what I meant to say in the first<br>> place. I'm getting a bit more cynical lately.<br>> <br>> > Membership is a social contract giving the member certain rights and<br>> > obligations
within the noisebridge community. Ability to fully participate<br>> > in the consensus process. A sense of security against witch hunts and oogle<br>> > raids. A sense of responsibility to fulfill obligations that have been taken<br>> > on, including but not limited to a recurring donation. Social Contract. You<br>> > know, the power and engine of an anarchist system??<br>> <br>> Indeed. However, the idea of volunteering time vs/ having a recurring<br>> donation of time spent doing something requires some kind of feedback<br>> mechanism. Money is easy, because you give the money first, and then<br>> things X, Y, and Z happen.<br>> <br>> Volunteering instead of paying a membership due is an interesting<br>> proposition. My next statement does tie into it! The IRS _does_<br>> care about value and time given. So, if someone is expected to<br>> perform
$80/month worth of tasks, it means assigning values to tasks,<br>> and making sure the task is completed. Assuming minimum wage, that's<br>> ~10 hours worth of volunteering.<br>> <br>> > I have worked with lots of people in lots of different settings, and my<br>> > social science data tells me that creating a structured relationship between<br>> > a person and an organization increases the persistence of that relationship.<br>> > The more clearly defined the terms of that relationship are (as well as<br>> > being well-matched in terms of scale of commitment) the more likely the<br>> > relationship is to succeed.<br>> <br>> I'm in complete lockstep agreement.<br>> <br>> > I know it's a popular meme to say 'membership doesn't get you anything!' but<br>> > maybe we want to rewrite this thought. We should use our meta-linguistic<br>> > programming to reinforce the
algorithms we prefer. If we want our social<br>> > contract to have strength, we would do well to give it its due.<br>> <br>> That means giving it some hysteresis/feedback mechanism. Actions<br>> leading to actual consequences.<br>> <br>> [ snip ]<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net"
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