<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Yeah once again we see Lewis's Law in evidence: The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
I can't even.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- liz<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">
<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Christoph Maier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cm.hardware.software.elsewhere@gmail.com" target="_blank">cm.hardware.software.elsewhere@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>A wonderful thread!<br><br></div>It reminds me that you all are very good at creating Chaos (that's why I need a dose of noisebridge every now and then), <br>
but ranking who is best at it may be sexist, benevolently or not.<br>
</div>So I should probably talk about python instead.<br><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUBAx8jbYNs</a><br></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 8:33 AM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com" target="_blank">jim@systemateka.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
In the early 1990s internet relay was new and<br>
getting popular. Among the newly interested were<br>
those with little video cams attached to their<br>
computers (think male in bathrobe at cam).<br>
I submitted a writeup of something I discovered<br>
in the IRC sex crowd to what was then my second<br>
favorite web site (my first was <a href="http://paranoia.com" target="_blank">paranoia.com</a>, which<br>
went extinct, the domain name repurposed by some<br>
commercial entity, nothing like the original);<br>
anyway, I got lots of laughs reading the various<br>
Heartless Bitches pages and am proud that they<br>
used and have kept my submission (circa 1993):<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/hotgirl.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/hotgirl.shtml</a><br>
<div><div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Fri, 2013-04-05 at 21:16 -0700, Naomi Most wrote:<br>
> Heh, now you know something of how a lot of us women felt when getting<br>
> on the internet a decade or more ago (and for many, even still). I<br>
> have been using neutral-gender online handles since 1995.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --Naomi aka nthmost aka venix aka 101101 ...<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Apr 5, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Garrett Mace <<a href="mailto:garrettmace@gmail.com" target="_blank">garrettmace@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
> I'm not happy with the risk that anyone might confuse me with<br>
> Garrett Smith, since it appears we have some major differences<br>
> in many viewpoints despite having the same uncommon first<br>
> name. I am going to come up with a pseudonym to use on this<br>
> list as I'm no longer comfortable using my own.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --- Garrett Mace, (non-jerk)<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Apr 5, 2013, at 4:22 PM, Lyra <<a href="mailto:elevin@MIT.EDU" target="_blank">elevin@MIT.EDU</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
> > Naomi, you are of course welcome to keep fighting with him.<br>
> > I just don't find that fun or useful, so I won't.<br>
> ><br>
> > Rachel Lyra! Very true. That being said, we can (and should)<br>
> > work to improve ourselves and our world simultaneously. It<br>
> > seems there are different hosts benevolent (or not so)<br>
> > sexism may reside in and different ways to combat it in each<br>
> > case.<br>
> ><br>
> > For ourselves, the hard part is noticing. This would be made<br>
> > far easier if it were more socially okay for people to call<br>
> > us out on such behavior. For example, a friend mentioned to<br>
> > me that when I used the word 'dick' for a mean person, I was<br>
> > reinforcing the idea of men being synonymous with jerks. I'm<br>
> > glad he was comfortable with telling me that, as it gave me<br>
> > the opportunity to change my behavior in some small,<br>
> > positive way.<br>
> ><br>
> > Rational people whose opinions we care about can be reasoned<br>
> > with and irrational people who's opinions carry no personal<br>
> > value can be ignored. But what about people who hold these<br>
> > beliefs unreasonably and for some reason, their opinion must<br>
> > be worked around (policy makers, cultural leaders, teachers,<br>
> > bosses, investors...)?<br>
> ><br>
> > Lyra Rachel Levin<br>
> ><br>
> > Sent en route, pardon the brevity.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Apr 5, 2013 4:07 PM, "rachel lyra hospodar"<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:rachelyra@gmail.com" target="_blank">rachelyra@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> > Thanks for this, Lyra! I think there are a bunch of<br>
> > good ways to move forward on issues of embedded<br>
> > sexist behaviors. Ultimately the question of what<br>
> > to do next depends on who the speaker is. We all<br>
> > have work we can do within ourselves, and the old<br>
> > advice about tending to the beam in one's own eye<br>
> > first rings pretty true here. Sometimes I think the<br>
> > most fruitful thing for most of us to do is to<br>
> > encourage the normalization of a critical analysis<br>
> > and discussion of these issues, as a normal and<br>
> > rational part of public discourse.<br>
> ><br>
> > R.<br>
> ><br>
> > On 4/5/2013 4:01 PM, Lyra wrote:<br>
> > So I tend to just write off people like<br>
> > Garrett Smith - their opinion is<br>
> > not useful or valid to me so why waste<br>
> > cycles feeding the trolls?<br>
> > However, Merlin's link on Stereotype Threat<br>
> > clarified what is bad about<br>
> > that behavior. This isn't a small, vocal,<br>
> > but ultimately powerless group<br>
> > that thinks this way. This is a lot of<br>
> > people, some very intelligent,<br>
> > some very powerful.<br>
> ><br>
> > Instead of bothering with this fruitless<br>
> > argument with Garrett, let's<br>
> > look at ways we can combat the source of the<br>
> > problem. Calling people out<br>
> > on unnoticed bad behavior is one way. Pro<br>
> > active and empowering<br>
> > education opportunities are an excellent one<br>
> > too (for adults and<br>
> > especially for children). Further thoughts?<br>
> ><br>
> > Lyra<br>
> ><br>
> > Sent en route, pardon the brevity.<br>
> ><br>
> > On Apr 5, 2013 3:46 PM, "Danny O'Brien"<br>
> > <<a href="mailto:danny@spesh.com" target="_blank">danny@spesh.com</a><br>
> > <mailto:<a href="mailto:danny@spesh.com" target="_blank">danny@spesh.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> > _______________________________________________<br>
> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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> ><br>
><br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Naomi Theora Most<br>
> <a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com" target="_blank">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
> <a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490" target="_blank">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
><br>
> skype: nthmost<br>
><br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/nthmost" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nthmost</a><br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr"><div><br>. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .<br>Liz Henry<br></div><a href="mailto:lhenry@mozilla.com" target="_blank">lhenry@mozilla.com</a><br>
<a href="mailto:lizhenry@gmail.com" target="_blank">lizhenry@gmail.com</a><br></div>
</div>