<p>I think it should cost something to be a member. Money or time. That could be the motivator to be excellent. Membership...</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 2, 2013 7:48 PM, "Corey McGuire" <<a href="mailto:coreyfro@coreyfro.com">coreyfro@coreyfro.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
++<br><br>The only trouble is enforcing the one rule. And how does one enforce it all night?<br><br>How about Rewarding excellence for being a contributing member by allowing such people total access to the space. Without saying that not being a contributing member is unexcellent, it could be said that there are hours where only contributors are allowed due to established records of excellence. Another excellence condition would be, if there are fewer that 3 excellent contributors, all others must leave.<br>
<br>This is challenging to the over ethos of Noisebridge, but every other business has the right to close up shop or otherwise deny service due to staffing constraints. Sure, it creates a class system at noisebridge, but it also creates a karma threshold for recognition, motivation, and reward.<br>
<br>Because, as it stands, what is the reward for contributing to Noisebridge? What is the motivation to not be trash? The reward or punishment are both boring meetings that many of us can't attend.<br><br>I know yet another opinion, but none of us want to see this place die.<br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 5:12 PM, Gavin Knight <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gnnrok@gmail.com" target="_blank">gnnrok@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">Seemed that the IV drug use started some of this debate so it sounds like we define people who use nb to shoot up as unexcellent and asked to leave. Additionally people who are violent and cause fights can be defined as unexcellent and asked to leave. Finally people who engage in sexual harassment have been considered unexcellent and asked to leave.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So if you fit into one of those categories then maybe that person is not a good fit at noisebridge. If you have not been disruptive, involved in physical altercations, using noisebridge as shooting gallery or harrasing other sexually or otherwise than it seems you are exempt based on previous ejections from the space</p>
<div><div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 2, 2013 1:19 PM, "Mitchel McAllister" <<a href="mailto:xonimmortal@yahoo.com" target="_blank">xonimmortal@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I am seeing a very troubling concept being given tacit support here.<br>
<br>
The idea that people can be asked to leave for "spending too much time at Noisebridge" is, to put it plainly, bizarre.<br>
<br>
The people that I have seen targeted lately by this line of thinking do not live at Noisebridge. We all know that. They live elsewhere, and that has been demonstrated.<br>
<br>
I'm not even going to bother with the question of "how long is too long". That's just the sinkhole that swallows the real issue.<br>
<br>
I was under the impression that Noisebridge was supposed to be an open, nonjudgmental, non-bigoted space. I was under the impression that people could only be asked to leave because of their actions.<br>
<br>
The people being told to leave, under this aegis at any rate, have not done anything wrong. They are not guilty of omission, either. Their presence in the space has not deprived anyone of any civil or human right, has not deprived anyone of any resource of Noisebridge, and has not prevented anyone else from using the space.<br>
<br>
So what, exactly, are they guilty of? Who have they been unexcellent to? Whose rights have been violated? What person or entity has been endangered?<br>
<br>
The first hackerspace that I wrote about, back in 2003, had a tradition of repeating one thing at the beginning of any meeting: "We're not making decisions for anyone else." This was, among other things, meant to remind everyone that any proposal applied to the proposer *first*. It also reminded everyone that their rights ended at the end of everybody else's nose.<br>
<br>
What I am seeing is a proposal that is meant to solve a problem, but does not solve the problem that it is supposed to, but to solve a problem that is not a problem.<br>
<br>
The people who are "living" at Noisebridge aren't being targeted here. I can point to four or five people who rarely leave for more than an hour or six. However, those people are not being confronted, because they can sit and have nice warm fuzzy conversations with members, or they can demonstrate some kind of technical knowledge or achievement (or at least talk like they can). One person has been "living" at Noisebridge almost non-stop for the past two weeks, despite being confronted on it.<br>
<br>
The people that I am seeing targeted are being asked to leave over specious reasons. "You're not hacking", yet the confronter has no idea whether the "suspect" is hacking or not (in one occasion, the confronter insisted that only "coding" was valid hacking!). "You're a social [sic] hacker", yet the person speaking doesn't have the first clue what the "suspect" is actually working on.<br>
<br>
I am not seeing rational arguments here. I am seeing knee-jerk reactions.<br>
<br>
I was told a few weeks ago that I should leave because my "tone" on the email list was offending certain people. Yet, one of the most offensive acts of trolling that I have ever seen was allowed to float past on the email list, with no sanctions or consequences whatsoever.<br>
<br>
I will admit that I get annoyed when I see people walk in, plop down on the couch, and go to sleep. I get irritated seeing people come in to sit around and argue loudly about politics or activism. I get very irritated when I see people pontificate about how they are the only real hacker in the space and everyone else should genuflect to them.<br>
<br>
But we already have "rules" regarding that behavior. People are not supposed to be sleeping here. Disruptive people are asked to leave. Okay, we don't have a rule covering pompous assholes, but so far laughing at them seems to work wonders.<br>
<br>
The first step in problem-solving is actually defining the problem. So far, the only definition I have seen is "those people are ruining Noisebridge OH NOES !one!!oneone"<br>
<br>
Can we please have a rational discussion on this for a change?<br>
<br>
- Reverend Mik McAllister<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein" title="Albert Einstein" target="_blank">Albert Einstein</a><br>
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardo_Da_Vinci" title="Leonardo Da Vinci" target="_blank">Leonardo Da Vinci</a><br>
Perfection is reached not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_de_Saint_Exup%C3%A9ry" title="Antoine de Saint Exupéry" target="_blank">Antoine de Saint Exupéry</a><br>
Keep It Simple Stupid - <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Johnson" title="Clarence Johnson" target="_blank">Kelly Johnson</a>
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