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I didn't mean my note to sound like an attack. I just wanted to set
the record straight that I am on your side of the issue.<br>
<br>
Norman<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 6/28/2013 6:32 PM, rachel lyra
hospodar wrote:<br>
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cite="mid:CAFp750uO6AL8LZ8jcqfEDfTk-y7O3dJ_iq0AyXon=iEs1B3PWw@mail.gmail.com"
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<p>Hi norman,</p>
<p>My assertion is that who needs to go to workshops around
creeperism is everyone who thinks creeperism should be
addressed, because then folks who aren't creepers can learn some
things about how to help ameliorate the problem. The
interpretation your second message here reinforces for me is one
where you seem to believe creepers oughta be educated, and that
you also believe workshops would be towards that end. This
leaves off any hope of educating concerned bystanders (that
would, presumably, include you) and creating a non-rapey
culture. I am glad if that's not what you mean. That's how it
reads to me.</p>
<p>I empathize if you feel that you've been misrepresented. It was
not a direct quote, but a paraphrase, because my intention was
not to convey your thoughts. That was what you did, or attempted
to (all communication being an approximation, after all).</p>
<p>I wanted to convey the way I read, experienced, and
interpreted, what had been written. It is not my goal to
misinterpret people. It is something that we all do, and
hopefully work continually to do less.</p>
<p>I feel like my argument with you here is the same as my recent
one on-list with johnny radio. Some things I expect from people
who are my allies:<br>
-accepting my feelings as valid<br>
-accepting that communication is a two-way street<br>
-accepting that your responsibility to attempt to communicate
your feelings accurately is precisely equal to my responsibility
to attempt to interpret them correctly.</p>
<p>For me, the logical outcome of these tenets is that, if an ally
of mine speaks in a way that convinces me they hold a certain
belief, then they would be concerned, and seek to change the way
they are speaking. For others, the logical outcome of being
misunderstood seems to be to argue why the other person was
wrong for not understanding them. Shrug.</p>
<p>R.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jun 28, 2013 6:14 PM, "Norman" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:pryankster@gmail.com">pryankster@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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I think you were trying to quote a comment I made and what you
said is NOT what I said. What I said is that my experience has
been that the people that need to go to these workshops are
the people that don't show up.<br>
<br>
I did not say that there is no use in having them and didn't
say anything about that I "believed that harassment is only
the problem of skeevy creepers, and those they creep on."
Harassment and assault are a serious problem in our society
not just at Noisebridge.<br>
<br>
If you are going to quote me please be correct and don't put
words or motives in my mouth. I am quite capable of doing that
myself.<br>
<br>
Norman<br>
<br>
On 6/27/2013 5:49 PM, rachel lyra hospodar wrote:<br>
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<br>
Thank you for caring! I got really sad about someone else's
offhanded comment that if we do any realtime meetups around
harrassment issues, there is no use because the people who
need them won't be there...<br>
<br>
Which is to say, that person believed that harassment is
only the problem of skeevy creepers, and those they creep
on.<br>
<br>
I believe it's helpful for anyone who wants to demonstrate
that they retain some humanity to engage with the issue. I
also believe that anyone who is interested in the problem is
qualified to engage with it, and in fact the entire thrust
of hackering is that you don't need anyone's permission, or
to reach an educational benchmark, to begin working.<br>
<br>
R.<br>
<br>
<br>
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