<div dir="ltr"><div style>Hello,</div><div style><br></div><div style>Evangelist Conceso-Troll here!</div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Carl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carl@icarp.info" target="_blank">carl@icarp.info</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Hi Tom,</div><div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>[snip...]</div><div style>�</div><div style>�</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>What authority do you have for telling him this, as opposed to simply telling him to leave and come back to a meeting to discuss this, which is the usual procedure?</div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div style>Ooh, ooh, I can answer this! �The answer to "What authority" is: None.</div><div style><br></div><div style>I assume on good faith that Tom was requesting that Tony leave as an individual, but also one who was taking on the responsibility of gauging the community. �If he was claiming some kind of authority outside of that, I'd take issue with that.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Judged only from this mailing list, it sure seems to me like Tony doesn't respect the requests of Liz, Tom, Jake, Danny and perhaps others, so if I ever meet him, I will have to adjust my behavior and expectations with the assumption that he does not respect requests.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>On the other hand, I haven't heard practical requests from Tony, but I have heard a complaint that white hetero Googley Appendages are preying upon nb and San Francisco. �I'm also concerned about that, but I don't understand any specific requests from Tony. �How can nb improve or change to address that? �If the answer is "let people damage walls and then leave a mess for the landlord" I fail to see how that will stop the Googlification of San Francisco.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>As far as I recall, no one has suggested Tony has ever been a threat to anyone in the space, so I would like to know more about why people are insisting that he be banned.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>
It seems fairly obvious to me, (again only having only read emails), that Tony threatened his own safety, and damaged property without recompense to those who had to deal with it. �Also, damage and wasting people's time is not "a threat" but worse. �Accidents happen, but from Jake's email I gather Tony insufficiently apologized, helped, or cared about his actions.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I'd like to keep in mind though, that my view from email land might be missing important details. �If *I* were Tony, and I actually cared about the community of nb, then I would ask myself: "How can I gain their respect, so that people are comfortable with my presence in the space?" �But from his email, it seems like his attitude is more like: "Oh that darned cool kids clique of Googley appendages... �they think they can assert their authority on me, do they?! Well, fine, I'll come anyway! �That will show them their authority is bullshit." �What does he hope to accomplish?</div>
<div style><br></div><div>�</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br></div><div>I am just trying to find out more about this issue.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Me too! �I appreciate your questions. �I'm a bit concerned about a despotic clique that kicks out marginalized classes, but from what I can gather on the mailing list over the past week is that the two cases I've seen involved a disrespect for community consent from the people asked to leave.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I'm also concerned if Tony or anyone else did not know these things about nb:</div><div style><br></div><div style>"Be Excellent". �(Hint: This is related to consent.)</div><div style>
<br></div><div style>Authority doesn't exist. �(Except nb compromises its ideal to attain 501c3 status, and in the eyes of the law the "Members" and "Board" and some other roles are special.)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Anyone should feel invited to come to a meeting to request community attention to anything, especially being asked/told to leave.</div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div>�</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><div>Thanks</div>
<div>-Carl</div><div><br></div><div>(I cannot currently post to the discuss list. Feel free to CC your reply to the list if you wish to do so.)</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I do not understand this, because I read your email on the discuss list, but I cc'd your address explicitly as requested.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Regards,</div><div style>Nathan, avowed nb nonmember</div><div style>�</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><br><div><div>On Jun 29, 2013, at 5:00 AM, <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a> wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:16px"><div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>From:<span>�</span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Tom Lowenthal <<a href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" target="_blank">me@tomlowenthal.com</a>><br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Subject:<span>�</span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>[Noisebridge-discuss] Asked to leave: Tony Longshanks & Veronica</b><br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Date:<span>�</span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">June 28, 2013 10:57:44 PM PDT<br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>To:<span>�</span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
</span></div><div class="im"><br><br>This evening, I asked two people to leave Noisebridge.<br><br>I asked Tony Longshanks LeTigre to leave and never come back. I did so<br>because of the events leading up to him being trapped in the closet<br>
behind the elevator and breaking out through the drywall. During our<br>discussion he affirmatively stated that he was in that space because<br>he was storing items there. I told him that this was unacceptable.<br><br>I asked Veronica to and not to return unless she wanted to discuss our<br>
disagreement at a meeting. Our disagreement centered around leaving<br>food at Noisebridge, and one's obligations with respect to ensuring<br>that everything is cleared up afterwards. Veronica took issue with my<br>tone.<br>
<br>I also had a discussion with Jim, who had brought the food which<br>prompted my conversation with Veronica. He asserted that he always<br>ensured that food he brings is cleared up. His response to my request<br>to clean up was combative, but he left immediately.</div>
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