<div dir="ltr"><div style>Hello,</div><div style><br></div><div style>Evangelist Conceso-Troll here!</div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 29, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Carl <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:carl@icarp.info" target="_blank">carl@icarp.info</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Hi Tom,</div><div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>[snip...]</div><div style> </div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>What authority do you have for telling him this, as opposed to simply telling him to leave and come back to a meeting to discuss this, which is the usual procedure?</div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div style>Ooh, ooh, I can answer this! The answer to "What authority" is: None.</div><div style><br></div><div style>I assume on good faith that Tom was requesting that Tony leave as an individual, but also one who was taking on the responsibility of gauging the community. If he was claiming some kind of authority outside of that, I'd take issue with that.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Judged only from this mailing list, it sure seems to me like Tony doesn't respect the requests of Liz, Tom, Jake, Danny and perhaps others, so if I ever meet him, I will have to adjust my behavior and expectations with the assumption that he does not respect requests.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>On the other hand, I haven't heard practical requests from Tony, but I have heard a complaint that white hetero Googley Appendages are preying upon nb and San Francisco. I'm also concerned about that, but I don't understand any specific requests from Tony. How can nb improve or change to address that? If the answer is "let people damage walls and then leave a mess for the landlord" I fail to see how that will stop the Googlification of San Francisco.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>As far as I recall, no one has suggested Tony has ever been a threat to anyone in the space, so I would like to know more about why people are insisting that he be banned.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>
It seems fairly obvious to me, (again only having only read emails), that Tony threatened his own safety, and damaged property without recompense to those who had to deal with it. Also, damage and wasting people's time is not "a threat" but worse. Accidents happen, but from Jake's email I gather Tony insufficiently apologized, helped, or cared about his actions.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I'd like to keep in mind though, that my view from email land might be missing important details. If *I* were Tony, and I actually cared about the community of nb, then I would ask myself: "How can I gain their respect, so that people are comfortable with my presence in the space?" But from his email, it seems like his attitude is more like: "Oh that darned cool kids clique of Googley appendages... they think they can assert their authority on me, do they?! Well, fine, I'll come anyway! That will show them their authority is bullshit." What does he hope to accomplish?</div>
<div style><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div><br></div><div>I am just trying to find out more about this issue.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>Me too! I appreciate your questions. I'm a bit concerned about a despotic clique that kicks out marginalized classes, but from what I can gather on the mailing list over the past week is that the two cases I've seen involved a disrespect for community consent from the people asked to leave.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>I'm also concerned if Tony or anyone else did not know these things about nb:</div><div style><br></div><div style>"Be Excellent". (Hint: This is related to consent.)</div><div style>
<br></div><div style>Authority doesn't exist. (Except nb compromises its ideal to attain 501c3 status, and in the eyes of the law the "Members" and "Board" and some other roles are special.)</div>
<div style><br></div><div style>Anyone should feel invited to come to a meeting to request community attention to anything, especially being asked/told to leave.</div><div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><div>Thanks</div>
<div>-Carl</div><div><br></div><div>(I cannot currently post to the discuss list. Feel free to CC your reply to the list if you wish to do so.)</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div style>I do not understand this, because I read your email on the discuss list, but I cc'd your address explicitly as requested.</div>
<div style><br></div><div style><br></div><div style>Regards,</div><div style>Nathan, avowed nb nonmember</div><div style> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div></div><br><div><div>On Jun 29, 2013, at 5:00 AM, <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a> wrote:</div>
<br><blockquote type="cite"><span style="border-collapse:separate;font-family:Helvetica;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:-webkit-auto;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;font-size:medium"><span style="font-family:Calibri;font-size:16px"><div style="margin:0px">
<span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>From:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Tom Lowenthal <<a href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" target="_blank">me@tomlowenthal.com</a>><br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Subject:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><b>[Noisebridge-discuss] Asked to leave: Tony Longshanks & Veronica</b><br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>Date:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">June 28, 2013 10:57:44 PM PDT<br>
</span></div><div style="margin:0px"><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium;color:rgb(127,127,127)"><b>To:<span> </span></b></span><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
</span></div><div class="im"><br><br>This evening, I asked two people to leave Noisebridge.<br><br>I asked Tony Longshanks LeTigre to leave and never come back. I did so<br>because of the events leading up to him being trapped in the closet<br>
behind the elevator and breaking out through the drywall. During our<br>discussion he affirmatively stated that he was in that space because<br>he was storing items there. I told him that this was unacceptable.<br><br>I asked Veronica to and not to return unless she wanted to discuss our<br>
disagreement at a meeting. Our disagreement centered around leaving<br>food at Noisebridge, and one's obligations with respect to ensuring<br>that everything is cleared up afterwards. Veronica took issue with my<br>tone.<br>
<br>I also had a discussion with Jim, who had brought the food which<br>prompted my conversation with Veronica. He asserted that he always<br>ensured that food he brings is cleared up. His response to my request<br>to clean up was combative, but he left immediately.</div>
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