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    John, doesn't HTTP generally run over TCP? What happens when the
    router randomly start dropping packets for a TCP connection? Or a
    little less orthodox: What happens if the router starts to duplicate
    ACKs? (<a
      href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TCP_congestion_avoidance_algorithm">Hint</a>)<br>
    <br>
    However, the best solution is probably just to buy more bandwidth.<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/23/2013 5:43 PM, Jake wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:alpine.BSF.2.00.1309231643420.77191@pe2950.spaz.org"
      type="cite">hey man just because you can't do it doesn't mean it
      can't be done.
      <br>
      <br>
      On Mon, 23 Sep 2013, John Adams wrote:
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">It's downright impossible to implement
        traffic shaping when the traffic is asymmetrically loaded and
        you do not
        <br>
        control the other end of the link. You can reserve uplink
        bandwidth but look at how the problem plays out with HTTP
        <br>
        requests.
        <br>
        You make a tiny, 30 byte request that results in a flood of
        return traffic. If you attempt to shape traffic in the
        <br>
        customer-side router, you can't shape it because you've already
        saturated the inbound pipe. 
        <br>
        <br>
        We experience this problem all the time at DNA lounge. Some
        joker saturates the inbound pipe and our best defense
        <br>
        becomes 'ban his mac address from dhcp'. I've seen
        many recipes for PF that claim to do this but it's generally
        <br>
        hopeless.
        <br>
        <br>
        -j
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        On Mon, Sep 23, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Nicholas LoCicero
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nick.locicero@gmail.com"><nick.locicero@gmail.com></a> wrote:
        <br>
        <br>
              I was there as well, but didn't notice any slow internet.
        Do you think it could be the ISP?
        <br>
        <br>
              On Sep 23, 2013 6:45 AM, "Romy Snowyla"
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com"><romy@snowyla.com></a> wrote:
        <br>
                    I was at Noisebridge Saturday evening and verify yes
        it was very slow
        <br>
        <br>
                    Sent from my iPhone
        <br>
        <br>
                    > On Sep 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, Jake
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jake@spaz.org"><jake@spaz.org></a> wrote:
        <br>
                    >
        <br>
                    > how do you find out what is using up all the
        bandwidth, and block it?
        <br>
                    >
        <br>
                    > the internet is unusably slow.  If noisebridge
        doesn't have tools, materials or even
        <br>
                    internet connectivity, what are we doing?
        <br>
                    >
        <br>
                    > assuming nobody wants to tell me how to poke
        into the innards of our traffic routing, maybe
        <br>
                    someone can implement traffic shaping so that no one
        can use so much bandwidth that everyone
        <br>
                    else is shut out?
        <br>
                    >
        <br>
                    > -jake
        <br>
                    >
        <br>
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