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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">4 signatures.<br>
      <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">You are entitled to your own opinion.
You are NOT entitled to your own facts.

Norman</pre>
      On 10/31/2013 1:29 PM, Jake wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:alpine.BSF.2.00.1310311325480.67450@pe2950.spaz.org"
      type="cite">-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
      <br>
      Hash: SHA1
      <br>
      <br>
      <br>
      why are you imagining being asked to leave?  if you like
      noisebridge, will you consider signing up to be an associate
      member?
      <br>
      <br>
      you only need two signatures on your application (by members)
      before you are allowed in the space any time without an escort.
      <br>
      <br>
      once you have four signatures, you're an associate member and can
      sponsor other people to be in the space.
      <br>
      <br>
      it's really not that hard.  I'll sponsor you right now.  with this
      post.
      <br>
      <br>
      - -jake
      <br>
      <br>
      On Thu, 31 Oct 2013, Curtis Gagliardi wrote:
      <br>
      <br>
      <blockquote type="cite">I don't know how much my opinion matters
        as a non-member, but as someone who comes to noisebridge as a
        place to hang out and
        <br>
        write code, often until past 11, it's pretty disappointing to
        imagine being asked to leave despite doing nothing unexcellent.
        <br>
         Coming to Noisebridge when I first got to SF without knowing
        anyone in the city was already an intimidating experience, I'm
        <br>
        can't imagine knowing I needed to try to hunt down a member to
        vouch for me as soon as possible would have made it feel more
        <br>
        welcoming.  
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Darius Garza
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:313kid@gmail.com"><313kid@gmail.com></a> wrote:
        <br>
              It's been said a number of times already, but for the
        record, I'm also opposed to this members only paradigm shift.
        <br>
              Don't kill the "golden goose"!
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 8:58 AM, jim <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com"><jim@systemateka.com></a>
        wrote:
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
                  To a large extent my complaint is about the
        <br>
              anger and hostility that radiates from some of
        <br>
              the email.
        <br>
                  To some extent it seems to me that the
        <br>
              excitement some feel about others' activities
        <br>
              is not hacking but getting sucked into the
        <br>
              politics of community.
        <br>
                  Sure there are frustrating aspects of a
        <br>
              truly open community, but the approach of
        <br>
              dealing with problems by policy and fiat is
        <br>
              clearly a poor approach, as exemplified by
        <br>
              the Republican party's dictatorial actions.
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
              On Wed, 2013-10-30 at 22:17 -0700, Jeffrey Carl Faden
        wrote:
        <br>
              > In fairness about criticizing this new policy...
        another policy was in
        <br>
              > play for only a few weeks and it was already
        overruled without giving
        <br>
              > it the three months allotted to see if it improved
        the space.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              > Yes, people were complaining about it, but people are
        also complaining
        <br>
              > about this, aren't they?
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              > On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 6:19 PM, Jake
        <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jake@spaz.org"><jake@spaz.org></a> wrote:
        <br>
              >         The front page of the website is a wiki.  You
        can edit it if
        <br>
              >         you think it needs to change.  When did you
        stop being a
        <br>
              >         hacker?
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         This policy hasn't been in effect a full day
        yet, and yet
        <br>
              >         you're full of criticism for it with ZERO
        constructive
        <br>
              >         suggestions.  [insert joke about constructing
        bunk beds here]
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         as for killing the goose that lays the golden
        eggs, apparently
        <br>
              >         more people believe that to be true about
        people who refused
        <br>
              >         for so long to do anything about the downhill
        slide that
        <br>
              >         noisebridge has been in for a long time.
         Geese can die from
        <br>
              >         lack of care you know.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         As for being surprised that members passed
        this, another way
        <br>
              >         to word it is that after weeks of discussion
        about this issue,
        <br>
              >         all of the members who decided to show up
        agreed that it
        <br>
              >         needed to be done.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         problems are not solved by blocking or
        criticising efforts.
        <br>
              >          Problems are solved by making changes until
        things work
        <br>
              >         better.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         As for noisebridge's public image, I empower
        you to publicize
        <br>
              >         the subtle concept that the general public is
        welcome to stop
        <br>
              >         by and that they will almost certainly be
        invited in and given
        <br>
              >         a proper introduction and tour, and that we
        are eager to see
        <br>
              >         them.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         While you're at it please tell them that we
        are working hard
        <br>
              >         to replace our current perception by the
        public as a place you
        <br>
              >         would never WANT to go with one where you
        WILL want to go and
        <br>
              >         hack.  And if you refuse to recognize the
        reality that the
        <br>
              >         golden eggs don't WANT to go to noisebridge
        because of its
        <br>
              >         radical inclusivity, you're ignoring a lot of
        people's
        <br>
              >         opinions.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         -jake
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >         On Wed, 30 Oct 2013, Leif Ryge wrote:
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 On Wed, Oct 30, 2013 at 11:41:14AM
        -0700, Jake wrote:
        <br>
              >                         in every practical way
        nothing has changed at
        <br>
              >                         all.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                         [...]
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                         Noisebridge continues to be
        open to the public
        <br>
              >                         24/7 just as it always was.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 Do you actually believe those two
        statements? I almost
        <br>
              >                 expect you to say "not
        <br>
              >                 wittingly" next!
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 The front page of the website now
        says "Noisebridge is
        <br>
              >                 open 24/7 to Members,
        <br>
              >                 Associate Members and guests
        thereof".
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 It seems pretty obvious that people
        who don't know
        <br>
              >                 anyone there would, upon
        <br>
              >                 reading that, get the impression that
        they can't just
        <br>
              >                 drop in. I think most
        <br>
              >                 people (by a large margin) who have
        done awesome stuff
        <br>
              >                 at Noisebridge didn't
        <br>
              >                 know anyone physically present the
        first times they
        <br>
              >                 visited the space. So, I
        <br>
              >                 think this policy will have a
        significant negative
        <br>
              >                 impact.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 As I've said before, I think you're
        killing the goose
        <br>
              >                 that lays golden eggs.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 I am especially disappointed that
        this extremely
        <br>
              >                 drastic change was adopted at a
        meeting with only four
        <br>
              >                 members present. I hope the
        membership of Noisebridge
        <br>
              >                 will reconsider this.
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >                 ~leif
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >        
        _______________________________________________
        <br>
              >         Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
        <br>
              >         <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>
        <br>
              >        
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a>
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              >
        <br>
              > _______________________________________________
        <br>
              > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
        <br>
              > <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>
        <br>
              >
        <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a>
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        <br>
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        <br>
             
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        <br>
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        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
        <br>
      </blockquote>
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      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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