<div dir="ltr">Jim: what the fuck?<div><br></div><div>I would like you to pause and think on a few things for a moment. First, if I am in a position where I am being harassed, confronting my harasser is not always a safe thing for me to do. Throwing a punch might get me stabbed. Hell, telling someone to stop catcalling at me <a href="http://sfappeal.com/2013/01/fubu-clad-man-hits-on-woman-then-stabs-her/">might get me stabbed</a>. Second, I'd like to point out that while Noisebridge is pretty bad at throwing out harassers (see Danny's comments above), it's great about kicking out people who have thrown punches. Fighting back is more likely to get me kicked out of the space than the person who harassed me. If you claim that it's my responsibility to be able to defend myself, then the only responsible course of action is for me to only go to places that are safe...and that functionally means not coming to NB.</div>
<div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 5:17 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com" target="_blank">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif"><div>
<span>"</span>The members only policy has broken my heart and I've been struggling with a sense of frustration ..."</div><div><br>>>> Thank you for the wording, that is exactly how I felt about this but it was hard to express it correctly.<br>
<br>>>> I hope that the place will open again to the public in a ways of making sure it is again an inviting to both hackers and supportive crowd (as someone nicely put it few emails back). <br><br>>>> I'm going to propose a suggestion to a new threat because one thing which I think Jake was/is right is that there were not really pronounced alternatives or push to implement them and without a special effort things may be too challenging for increased number of people who are physically around Noisebridge these days, it looks
like that there is a need to change the atmosphere - not to the old days I think, you do not "step in the same river" at Noisebridge but something what is closer to the ideas on which or from which Noisebridge started to grow and did and hopefully will again flourish.<br>
<br>>>> Sincerely,<br><br>>>> FAA<br><br>>>> PS It may take me day or so, I want to make a wiki page on it to do it right.</div><div class="im"><br><div><br></div><div>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker</div>
<br><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org" target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a></div><div><br><br></div><div>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi<br>
</div></div><div><div class="h5"><div style="display:block"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:10pt"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> On Saturday, November 16, 2013 6:19 AM, Darius Garza <<a href="mailto:313kid@gmail.com" target="_blank">313kid@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div><div><div><div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">> I strongly encourage anyone with a sense of WTF to come to a meeting and<br clear="none">> resurrect Leif's proposal to revoke all member only consenssies. Two folks<br clear="none">
> two meetings prior did just this but their proposal was blocked. Something<br clear="none">> similar but different could be brought back at some point. <br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><font color="#45818e"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>I also strongly encourage people to do this, and to perhaps suggest alternate</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" clear="none">
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>ideas which could achieve some of the well-meaning goals of the misguided</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" clear="none"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">>selectively-enforced-members-</span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">only policy...</span></font><br clear="none">
<div><font color="#45818e"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br clear="none"></span></font></div><div>The members only policy has broken my heart and I've been struggling with a sense of frustration and hopelessness about changing things. </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>I'm not a member, nor an "associate member" but I will be present at the next meeting to support Leif's proposal to revoke the member's only policy that has stripped us of the culture that I once loved. </div>
<div><br clear="none"></div><div>d.</div></div><div><div><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><div>On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Adrian Chadd <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com" target="_blank">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>On 15 November 2013 11:43, Leif Ryge <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:leif@synthesize.us" target="_blank">leif@synthesize.us</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
> If the members of Noisebridge insist on making policies I implore them to make<br clear="none">
> policies which are more MAY and SHOULD than MUST and SHALL.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>I've implemented internet protocols like this. It turns out people can<br clear="none">
and do ignore MAY/SHOULD when it suits them / when they're lazy.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
That only works when everyone involved are actively working to better<br clear="none">
the community as a whole. It doesn't work if everyone is acting in<br clear="none">
(mostly non-enlightened) self-interest. Principles, whilst admirable,<br clear="none">
need to be backed up with constant work. I see lots of principles..<br clear="none">
then I saw a dirty kitchen, people being abusive at meetings and<br clear="none">
people feeling unsafe in the space.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
It turns out ideals and principles aren't enough.<br clear="none">
<span><font color="#888888"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
-adrian<br clear="none">
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