<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Nov 17, 2013 at 2:32 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@systemateka.com" target="_blank" onclick="window.open('https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&tf=1&to=jim@systemateka.com&cc=&bcc=&su=&body=','_blank');return false;">jim@systemateka.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br> <br>
Why is this about women only, and why is my<br>
opinion not welcome--after all, that's all I'm<br>
doing, presenting my point of view. Do you think<br>
that seeing one's self as a victim is okay?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>this is about women only because you framed it that way, fyi. you might want to read your original post again where this whole thing touched off. </div>
<div><br></div><div>also: i love when a man tells someone how to feel about what they experienced. you are once again doing that here jim (it isn't up to you to dictate how a woman or person who was the victim of sexual assault feels about it. please stop doing that, and understand that you ARE doing it to begin with. again. AGAIN.) </div>
<div><br></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Why do you say I'm ignoring anyone's experiences?<br>
I have no idea what others feel and have not so<br>
claimed. I am certainly open to listening and<br>
considering, as I think is obvious by my replies<br>
in this email thread.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>you are ignoring other people's lived experiences because you keep telling us how to feel about an experience that not only do you not have any experience with, but you couldn't because there are hundreds of years of abuse and unfair power dynamics behind it that you, as a cis-male in america, will never experience or be part of. sorry! </div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
It's dis-empowering to be harassed if you let<br>
it be.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>again, telling women or persons the victim of sexual harassment/assault how they should feel about it. AGAIN!!!!! </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I dislike the trend to any policies other<br>
than treat each other excellently. Why is my<br>
opinion not welcome in the group?<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>your opinion, at this point, is unwelcome because the many lived experiences of women at noisebridge dictate that this isn't enough for them to feel safe and as valued members of the community. you keep arguing to keep things the way they are, which isn't working for half the population visiting noisebridge. MANY women have at this point completely lost interest in noisebridge as a community, not because they aren't interested, or weren't willing to be part of it, but because it feels to them unsafe. i am one of those women. many of my female friends are also those women. i am sure many women or others are also part of that group. </div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
You're right that to report any problems </blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
to disbelief is dis-empowering, certainly<br>
discouraging. But in such a case, shouldn't one<br>
take courage and fight back? I think so.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>that is what we are doing here. awkward that you keep trying to derail it. </div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I've read your email and thought about what<br>
you've said. I am defending my right to express<br>
my opinions about life and feelings, and others<br>
have a right to take them or leave them as they<br>
choose. I am not dictating or telling anyone<br>
anything. Why do you think I am? I hope you'll<br>
answer that question.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>you seem to feel that not only do you have the right to express yourself, but you have the right to do so free of criticism. unfortunately that's not how it works. the many people telling you that your opinion is full of crap and to stfu are also exercising their free speech. you seem to have people confused with "congress" as in "<span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Lucida Sans Unicode','Lucida Grande',Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,'sans serif';font-size:14px;line-height:21px">Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." random people aren't congress. random people have every right to tell you to stfu if they feel like it. social acceptance and civil rights are two totally different things, and just because you are exercising your civil rights does not entitle you to social acceptance. </span></div>
<div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
My choice is to defend my right to express my<br>
point of view as well as to listen and think about<br>
whatever you have to say, and I believe I've<br>
repeatedly demonstrated that.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>you can feel free to repeatedly reiterate that you are an idiot. i will continue to call you an idiot. ymmv . </div><div><br></div><div>-hep </div></div><div>
<br></div>-- <br><div>hep</div><div>hepic photography || <a href="http://www.hepic.net" target="_blank">www.hepic.net</a><br> <a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org" target="_blank" onclick="window.open('https://mail.google.com/mail/?view=cm&tf=1&to=dis@gruntle.org&cc=&bcc=&su=&body=','_blank');return false;">dis@gruntle.org</a> || 415 867 9472 </div>
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