<div dir="ltr">Al, please go back and read my last email to the list. I followed both the letter and the spirit of all of Tom's communications and I'm happy to do so. And Tom's response was to.... well, go read my last email. Thanks!<div>
<br></div><div>Lee<br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Lee, you seem to have made more than just typo correction edits to the Membership pages:<div><br></div><div>
<a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781</a><br>
</div><div><br></div><div><a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35778&oldid=35538" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35778&oldid=35538</a><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div>Changing the wording, even if it is just being helpful and making the page more readable, should be brought up at the weekly meeting.</div><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Thu, Nov 21, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Lee Sonko <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lee@lee.org" target="_blank">lee@lee.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Tom, I think there has been a misunderstanding. I have put an exact transcript of our discussion below. I believe I can paraphrase it properly with this:</div><div><br></div><div>Lee: [edits Membership page]</div>
<div>Tom: [Rolls back edit]</div><div>Lee: Hey, why did you roll that back?</div><div>Tom: Your edit wasn't part of consensus. Only typos should be edited</div><div>Lee: Sorry. I'll only edit typos [edits a typo, <a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=35805&oldid=35781" target="_blank">here</a>]</div>
<div>Tom: [removes Lee's bureaucrat and administrator rights, says nothing and does not roll back Lee's typo edit]</div><div>Lee: Ha ha, very funny.</div><div>Tom: [No response]</div><div><div>Lee: Hey, what's up?</div>
<div>Tom: [No response]</div></div><div><div>Lee: Seriously, what's up?</div><div>Tom: [No response]</div></div><div>Lee: Dude, why did you do that?</div><div><div>Tom: [No response]</div></div><div>Lee: [To NB-D] Hey, where did Tom go?<br>
</div><div>Tom: [responds...]</div><div>....</div><div><br></div><div>Tom, your actions seem very heavy handed which is compounded by your resistance to communicate. I continue to act in a reputable and honorable way. I expect the same in return. I would appreciate it if you restored my bureaucrat and administrator rights on the wiki. I'm sure there was just a little miscommunication here, typing doesn't convey content as well as speech does. I'll be sure to try and find you and say hello the next time I'm in the space.</div>
<div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>>Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment policy page?</div></div><div>No. <br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>Here is the exact text of the discussion we had: (I'm in blue, Tom is in purple)<div>
<br></div><div><font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 14 7:38pm</font></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">I see that you undid all my edits here [<a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=next&oldid=35778" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Membership&diff=next&oldid=35778</a>] without any comments. Can you say why you rolled them all back? I'm pretty sure that all of my changes are in-keeping with the ongoing consensus discussion. I'm happy to discuss each potential change. --[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:19, 15 November 2013 (UTC)</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff"> </font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">−<span style="white-space:pre-wrap"> </span></font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Update: I see in this edit [<a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Category:Associate_Members&diff=prev&oldid=35782" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=Category:Associate_Members&diff=prev&oldid=35782</a>] you commented "You need to add the tag". It doesn't seem correct that adding a tag to a page makes you an associate member. However, being an associate member does let you legitimately add the tag. --[[User:Gadlen|gadlen]] ([[User talk:Gadlen|talk]]) 03:32, 15 November 2013 (UTC)</font></div>
</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#9900ff">Tom Nov 14 7:53pm:</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#9900ff">First of all, don't edit the membership page: it's changed by<br>
consensus only. When we agreed the last change to the membership<br>system, I was left with the task of writing it up our conclusions and<br>and adding them to the page. There should be no other time when that<br>page is changed, except possibly when you find a typo.<br>
<br>The substance of you edits was also incorrect in both cases. It is not<br>possible to become an associate member using a paper form. It can only<br>be done on the wiki. In addition, the category is an integral part of<br>
the process. You only become an associate member when you add your<br>page to the category, and you must add yourself to the category to<br>become an associate member. Both of these were specifically agreed at<br>the 2013-11-05 meeting.</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 14 8:40pm</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Sorry, I missed reading the meeting notes from 11-5-13.</font><div>
<font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">It seemed odd that the same person that was making lots of large changes was the person who also wrote "don't change anything!" so I just pressed on. In the future it would be very helpful if you leave a comment on your edit, especially drastic ones like rollbacks.</font></div>
<div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff">There are some typos on the page so I'll go ahead and fix them and then watch how it all plays out.</font></div>
</div></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Lee received an email from the Noisebridge wiki with a subject "Noisebridge page User:Gadlen has been created by Flamsmark". Lee assumed (incorrectly in retrospect. Actually his privileges had been changed) that Flamsmark had deleted and recreated his account)</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 14 10:49pm </font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Technically speaking, am I undead?</font><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#9900ff">No response from Tom</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 15 10:49pm (Lee assumed that Tom had protected the Membership page)</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever been vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is. Can you please remove the protection from it?</font><br>
</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<font color="#9900ff">No response from Tom</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 17 3:24pm</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Asking again:</font><div>
<div><font color="#0000ff"><img></font></div></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">
<font color="#0000ff">On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 10:49 PM, Lee Sonko <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lee@lee.org" target="_blank">lee@lee.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></font><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><font color="#0000ff">The Membership page still has plenty of typos. The page hasn't ever been vandalized and even if it were, you know where the Rollback button is. Can you please remove the protection from it?</font></div>
</blockquote></div></div></div></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<font color="#9900ff">No response from Tom</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 19 12:22pm</font></div><div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">Tom, why did you <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights" target="_blank">remove my </a><span style="line-height:19.046875px;font-family:sans-serif"><a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights" target="_blank">bureaucrat and administrator rights</a> on the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?</span></font><br>
</div></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#9900ff">No response from Tom</font></div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">--------------------------------------------------</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<font color="#0000ff">Lee Nov 20 2:49pm</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><font color="#0000ff">(Lee posted to NB-D about Tom not responding to emails)</font></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<div>
<font color="#0000ff">I've been having a conversation with Tom Lowenthal about NB over the last week or so. He asked me to communicate with him <a href="https://noisebridge.net/index.php?title=User_talk%3AFlamsmark&diff=35796&oldid=35795" target="_blank">directly via email instead of publicly on the wiki</a>. I'm happy to do so but he stopped replying a couple days back. So I'll ask here on NB-D. There were other emails he didn't respond to but getting a response to this one is a good start.</font><div>
<div><font color="#0000ff">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br></font></div></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div><font color="#0000ff">From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Lee Sonko</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:lee@lee.org" target="_blank">lee@lee.org</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 12:22 PM<br>Subject: The Nuclear Option<br>To: <a href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" target="_blank"><span>me@tomlowenthal.com</span></a><br></font></div><div><div dir="ltr"><font color="#0000ff">Tom, why did you <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights" target="_blank">remove my </a><span style="line-height:19.046875px;font-family:sans-serif"><a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Special:Log/rights" target="_blank">bureaucrat and administrator rights</a> on the Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?</span></font><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">--------------------------------------------------</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
End of transcript</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Nov 20, 2013 at 5:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" target="_blank">me@tomlowenthal.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Lee Sonko <<a href="mailto:lee@lee.org" target="_blank">lee@lee.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> Tom, why did you remove my bureaucrat and administrator rights on the<br>
> Noisebridge wiki and stop answering my emails?<br>
<br>
</div>Lee, I removed your admin privileges to stop you from continuing to<br>
edit the protected page describing our membership process.<br>
<br>
You edited the membership page, adding incorrect information, ignoring<br>
the notice that the page should only be edited as the result of a<br>
consensus discussion. When I rolled back your changes and asked you to<br>
stop, you admitted that you weren't at the consensus discussion,<br>
hadn't actually read any notes about it, and were just adding<br>
information that you thought was similar to what had been discussed.<br>
Then you edited the page again, so I removed your admin privileges.<br>
<br>
Was it also you (IP 71.135.45.119) who edited the anti-harassment<br>
policy page? Perhaps it was someone else. In any event, if<br>
71.135.45.119 is reading: the text on that page is *also* the result<br>
of a consensus process, and should not be edited. In fact, the page<br>
has a banner across the top letting readers know about the policy's<br>
trial period, and how to contribute on Github, which is where we<br>
agreed to work on changes.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
-Tom<br>
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</blockquote></div><br></div></div></div>