<div dir="ltr"><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Arial">This question on consensus. . . . the premise is a people and discourse problem. </font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">I've read through a few
comparative studies on the subject, and it does seem to me that on all cases it
depends on the people involved. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">Please consider the
following, very applicable journal article:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"><a href="https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/33654/1/Jain_Ambika_201211_MA_thesis.pdf">https://tspace.library.utoronto.ca/bitstream/1807/33654/1/Jain_Ambika_201211_MA_thesis.pdf</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">The biggest problems facing organizations similar to noisebridge (VNPOs)</span><span style="font-family:Arial"> are as follows:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">1. Time</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">2. Homogeneity</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">3. Emotional intensity</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">4. Individual differences</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">5. Nondemocratic
individuals</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">6. Environmental
constraints</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">Now, even if one does add
a hierarchy to the situation, does that resolve these problems? I'm
reading possibly, where more that fifteen (15) they found that the
group would . . . "loose intimacy and would make informal decision making
difficult." However, they found that when in a collectivist
non-buearucratic governance style, larger groups seem to me more interested in
the organization than self interest. Which moots arguments that these
dissenters are acting in some sort of self interest. Which was the brunt of the articulation of why consensus kills community. What is clear is that w</span><span style="font-family:Arial">e are dealing with
emotionally charged individual differences here. </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial">However, the article found that even larger organizations, beyond the bright-line of being considered a small group, can overcome differences if they were to do the following:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Arial"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:Arial">"Implications for practice intended for
non-bureaucratic VNPOs</span></i><span style="font-family:Arial"></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:Arial"><br></span></i></p>
<table class="" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse">
<tbody><tr>
<td style="border:1pt solid black;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Challenge</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"></span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-style:solid solid solid none;border-top-color:black;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-top-width:1pt;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Recommendations</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-left-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing
time</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-bottom-color:black;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">consider Iannello (1992) circular
model (Figure 7)</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">distinguish routine from
non-routine issues</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">entrust a group of members to
make routine decisions on behalf of the organization and inform others</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">allow time to discuss
controversial issues</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">create simple protocol, e.g.
reply to email in 72 hours, flagging emails as urgent, setting specific
timelines for tasks, phone colleagues if immediate responses are needed.</span></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-left-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing
homogeneity</span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-bottom-color:black;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">accept the benefits of having
homogeneity</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">build space for autonomy within
the organization</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>create an environment where
members feel safe and supported to express differences of opinion</b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">if possible, place few
restrictions on new incoming members and reach out to populations your
organization wants to include</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">at events, be welcoming to potential
new members with sign-up lists and information/invitation cards</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>allow for some diversity to
encourage innovation and creativity in thinking</b></span></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-left-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing
emotional intensity </span></p>
</td>
<td style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-bottom-color:black;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">ensure all members agree with and
understand the mission of the organization and how it will be carried
out</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">allow the mission to guide
decision making</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">get input from members
individually when drafting proposals</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">describe and distribute
controversial issues in a written form prior to a meeting to allow
members to generate opinions</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>use diplomacy when speaking to
other members especially on sensitive issues; assess when it is critical
for you to refrain to add to a conversation</b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>postpone controversial decisions
to allow time for members to digest the issues</b></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">check-in with members regularly
and especially after emotionally intense </span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt">situations</span></b></li></ul>
<ul type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">encourage members to resolve
conflicts quickly</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">minimize any opportunity for
members to execute a personal agenda by insisting on collaborative
mission-based decision making</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">employ a mediator is necessary</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">offer gratitude if appropriate</span></li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody></table>
<table class="" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" style="border-collapse:collapse"><tbody><tr><td style="border:1pt solid black;padding:0.75pt"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing
nondemocratic individuals</span></p></td><td style="border-style:solid solid solid none;border-top-color:black;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-top-width:1pt;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">use an informal interview process
to gage whether a potential new member is a right fit for the
organization</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">ensure new members are fully
aware of the mission, rules if any, and governance style of the
organization to set expectations</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">new members should agree to the
decision making processes of the organization; consider asking new
members to sign a pledge to follow desired protocol</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">create distinct roles and allow
nondemocratic individuals to have autonomy over their own project to
alleviate tension</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"> share leadership by rotating
leadership-roles and roles of responsibility</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">ways to include a nondemocratic
individual within the organization should be </span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt">discussed together with the individual in a
non-threatening manner, </span><span style="font-family:Arial;font-size:10pt">if a compromise is not possible,
nondemocratic individuals who are disruptive and threatening the life of
the organization should be discouraged from remaining with the
organization</span></li></ul></td></tr><tr><td style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-left-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing
environmental constraints</span></p></td><td style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-bottom-color:black;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt"><ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>carefully examine the internal
needs of the organization before any externally imposed conditions, i.e.
ask what the organization needs before determining what the external
environment requires it to have</b></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">carefully gage the amount of
legal recognition, professionalism, and external funding the
organization requires</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">consider the need for liability
insurance, bank account in the organization’s name, constitution and
bylaws</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">consider the implications of
accepting earmarked donations/grants</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">ensure there are sufficient
volunteers and finances to manage the added legal responsibilities of
having charitable status</span></li></ul></td></tr><tr><td style="border-style:none solid solid;border-right-color:black;border-bottom-color:black;border-left-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">Managing</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">individual
differences</span></p></td><td style="border-style:none solid solid none;border-bottom-color:black;border-bottom-width:1pt;border-right-color:black;border-right-width:1pt;padding:0.75pt"><ul type="disc"><li class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">assess the needs and pros/cons of
having distinct roles for members</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">practice reflective leadership
within the organization either informally or formally, where members
reflect on their role and influence within the organization</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>members with pronounced influence
should seek ways to minimize or disperse their influence</b></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">if role distinction is necessary
for practical purposes, stress members still work collaboratively as a
collective. Attempt to create a culture where members remain on equal
footing. Encourage transparency, information sharing, a climate of trust
and acceptance, and environment of mutual support and facilitation.</span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial"><b>if possible, rotate roles so
members learn and share different skills to avoid creating a hierarchy
of knowledge</b></span></li><li class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial">consider discounting the senior
officer roles, i.e. president and vice-president, required for the
application for charitable status</span></li></ul></td></tr></tbody></table>
</div><div></div><div class="gmail_extra">"</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Additional problems included the problem of consensus, however, <b style="text-decoration:underline">it was not at the top of the list. </b>Even though they seemed to be more "specific" to organizations like ours. Specificity to circumstance does not determine the impact problem. Again, you're dealing with a "people problem": </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="" title="Page 88">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<p><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">"However, <b>the research found other challenges which could inhibit non-bureaucratic governance
and are more specific to the circumstance of VNPO</b>s. These challenges include the lack of
succession planning, <b>minimal recruitment</b>, unreliable task completion, <b>minimal socialization with
the potential for disengagement</b>,<i> </i><b><i><u>a pronounced pressure to achieve consensus</u></i>, defining members
and member rights, and establishing a reporting structure</b>,<b> bylaws and constitution reflective of
their governance mode</b>l." (Pg. 81)</font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">Maybe we are focusing on the wrong thing here. But, on face, if you do kill consensus, I can see the losers of the non-consensus framework leaving noisebridge out of frustration. The political argument is winers-win and losers-lose, and that may be the new framework if there is no consensus framework. Now that may spark some sort of "spatial innovation", like adding lockers, or kicking out all the sleepers, but it would indeed kill the community as it is. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra">There is a difference in world views. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 19 December 2013 10:26, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@well.com" target="_blank">jim@well.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><br>
Great points! Kudos!<br>
<div class=""><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Thu, 2013-12-19 at 08:56 -0800, bfb wrote:<br>
> Al and Madelynn,<br>
><br>
><br>
> Both in this thread and at the last meeting I have been overwhelmed<br>
> with the sense that this will never become a dialog. It feels like an<br>
> epic monolog that's bound to flame out.<br>
><br>
><br>
> But let' try anyway...<br>
><br>
><br>
> What I did say on Tuesday was that 1. I didn't know where to begin and<br>
> 2. Quoted the first line from <a href="http://noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge.net</a> "Noisebridge is an<br>
> infrastructure provider for technical-creative projects,<br>
> collaboratively run by our members." Which is to say, not only a space<br>
> where collaboration happens, but a space collaboratively run by our<br>
> members. Your proposal derides this statement in two ways. 1. Moving<br>
> to a majoritarian system creates less opportunity for collaboration on<br>
> decision making and 2. It hands over the process to a board of<br>
> directors from the hands of the membership.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> -------- Original message --------<br>
> From: Al Sweigart<br>
> Date:12/18/2013 19:06 (GMT-08:00)<br>
> To: Rubin Abdi<br>
> Cc: noisebridge-discuss<br>
> Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Keeping associate members in their<br>
> place<br>
><br>
> It's in the meeting<br>
> notes: <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_12_17" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2013_12_17</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Basically, Danny blocks because other people would block. Kevin blocks<br>
> because Noisebridge is a collaborative space and majority voting would<br>
> undo or impinge on that. I encourage them (or anyone else) to correct<br>
> this description, but it's what I came away from the meeting with.<br>
> (And, of course, if Danny and Kevin don't have time to reply to the<br>
> list, that doesn't mean they implicitly agree with my description.)<br>
><br>
><br>
> The "other people who would block" I can only take a guess at, and<br>
> half of them aren't even living in SF anymore. If I try to read<br>
> people's minds about this issue I'm going to fail; I'd rather have<br>
> them chime in on the mailing list or show up at a meeting if they have<br>
> strong feelings about this.<br>
><br>
><br>
> -Al<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 6:49 PM, Rubin Abdi <<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> Al Sweigart wrote, On 2013-12-18 18:44:<br>
> > The most common tactic in Noisebridge politics is to get<br>
> people to stop<br>
> > speaking up about issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Then that sounds like an entirely different issue that needs<br>
> attention.<br>
> Don't cut off the finger when all that is needed is a bandage.<br>
><br>
> If I were you I would call out those members.<br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Rubin<br>
> <a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net">rubin@starset.net</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div><div class=""><div class="h5">> _______________________________________________<br>
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>