<p dir="ltr">I would say whatever is in the bylaws and on the wiki is what it is. I believe that means a hackerspa ce that has a community that has issues dealing with things due to a variety of issues one being victim blaming and others being unable to effectively deal with most basic issues. What do you think noisebridge is?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 25, 2014 7:38 PM, "Naomi Most" <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
You don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.<br>
<br>
First off -- empirically speaking, the harassment policy is being<br>
vehemently NOT ignored, but rather vehemently enforced.<br>
<br>
What you're observing is the tumult that's occurring because this<br>
policy and subsequent process are taking the place of<br>
community resolution.<br>
<br>
What you should be asking yourself is whether Noisebridge should be<br>
thought of as a "community" or as a hack-space vending machine. If<br>
the former, then we need to take better care of each other and not<br>
characterize the world as black and white. If the latter, then hey,<br>
why don't we close the space at 11pm and hire security guards.<br>
<br>
--Naomi<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 7:01 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I am going to take this thread as the harassment policy has failed and is<br>
> being blatently ignored. Should we just not have one anymore?<br>
><br>
> On Feb 25, 2014 6:53 PM, "Ronald Cotoni" <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Huh.<br>
>><br>
>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:48 PM, "Naomi Gmail" <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Uh, maybe some input from the involved parties?!? before leaping to<br>
>>> conclusions like that?<br>
>>><br>
>>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Then this is pretty clear that it is harassment. Right? What more<br>
>>> information do we need?<br>
>>><br>
>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:32 PM, "Charles Tang" <<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I don't think mediation between Tom and Lee is a good idea.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I mean Lee seems to want Toms attention for some reason.<br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 6:26 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Can you help lee with getting a consensus item on the docket or perhaps<br>
>>>>> mediation?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:23 PM, "Naomi Gmail" <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I could have blocked as well, but thought MCT had it covered.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Honestly I just didn't think the proposal would go through. I see it<br>
>>>>>> as a failure of community and an abuse of bureaucracy that it did go<br>
>>>>>> through. So I am coming tonight to learn more.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014, at 6:18 PM, Lee Sonko <<a href="mailto:lee@lee.org">lee@lee.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> MCT agreed to proxy-block for me several weeks ago. He was at the<br>
>>>>>> meeting 2 weeks ago when the matter was expected to be discussed, however it<br>
>>>>>> wasn't brought up. Last week MCT wasn't at the meeting so I had no<br>
>>>>>> representation.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I work Tuesday evenings so am generally unable to attend meetings but<br>
>>>>>> I found a substitute tonight.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I hope we can all discuss this matter together.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Lee<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:07 PM, "Ronald Cotoni" <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Lee was aware and Lee chose for a long time to not come to meetings<br>
>>>>>>> or get someone else to proxy block. I suggest you get a deeper<br>
>>>>>>> understanding of how consensus works and why it is the way it is. It was<br>
>>>>>>> to give him time, which he ignored sadly and has to deal with the<br>
>>>>>>> consequences now.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 6:00 PM, "Charles Tang" <<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> The second person who answers by come to a meeting.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> These answers are fluid, which is the reason why Johnny asked for<br>
>>>>>>>> clarification on GitHub.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> We need a better understanding and conceptualizer for banning.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> I made my case with Lee. It seems to me he was just being annoying<br>
>>>>>>>> to Tom. Now, others do annoying things to me all the time, but I don't<br>
>>>>>>>> exclude.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> The problem here is a failure to communicate, to ask, to<br>
>>>>>>>> "participate", to educate and to help.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, the community is fractured. Indeed, people can be annoying<br>
>>>>>>>> Indeed, people can do bad things.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> But, goodness is fragile. Moreover, exclusion is not the answer for<br>
>>>>>>>> our problems. Inquisitions to rid ourselves of alternatives forecloses<br>
>>>>>>>> opportunity for us all.<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> And movements fail. . . .<br>
>>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone<br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:53 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> Come to a meeting. Read the bylaws and look at the wiki. These<br>
>>>>>>>>> questions can be answered by those things<br>
>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>> On Feb 25, 2014 5:47 PM, "Charles Tang" <<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> Is active member defined be the label "member" or is it define by<br>
>>>>>>>>>> those who are "active."<br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> Or is there really a mythical "active member"<br>
>>>>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>>>>> Sent from Mailbox for iPhone<br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Adrian Chadd<br>
>>>>>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> On 25 February 2014 17:42, Darius Garza <<a href="mailto:313kid@gmail.com">313kid@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > "A ban from the Noisebridge space may be a useful social<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > punishment for a<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > social crime"<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > Noisebridge is a lot of things, but it certainly isn't up to<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > anyone to use<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> > it as a "social punishment" tool.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> ... noisebridge is apparently whatever the active membership<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> decide it<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> is. I thought that was the point.<br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> -a<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Naomi Theora Most<br>
<a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
<br>
skype: nthmost<br>
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</blockquote></div>