<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Paying someone to clean Noisebridge for an hour would be cheaper than buying 2 burritos & 2 beers <br><br>----<div><br></div><div><a href="http://Snowyla.com">Snowyla.com</a></div><div><a href="http://Romyilano.com">Romyilano.com</a></div></div><div><br>On Feb 24, 2014, at 2:07 PM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <<a href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Re:Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Garrett Smith)<br><br>Hi to all,<br>issues with kitchen are common thought the hackerspaces. This facility and toilets are the best indicators of the health of the community, removing them does not heal the real cause. Most of the people do realize the importance of kitchens and what can be done in them for the community, it takes time to find system to make it work properly and it is most of the time continuous effort to keep it in a decent manner. Well equipment kitchen is a gift for the community and great way how to bring people together, improve their eating habits and diet - Noisebridge is not exception to that.<br><br>Doing regular events and checks lets say twice per week should take care about the majority of issues, do not expect that everyone
will clean after themselves, it would be nice but someone will have to chip extra energy to it, that applies to nearly any activity in a community based place as you well know based on experience.<br><br>In this case talking to the people who are now more active in the kitchen would be a good idea, they posted recently to the list and they seemed to be quite enthusiastic I'm quite pretty sure that they will listen. Bring the issue up and discuss it and lets see what can be the ways how to improve it. Removing plates, stoves and other facilities is avoiding the problem and basically destroying the concept of the place - you need heat sources to prepare simply proper food and serve them on a non disposable plates which is more environmental friendly at least to my opinion. Removing those would just compromise the facility, decrease a chances to do something cool and avoid a real problem, you will take out tools and equipment for food and beverage
preparation/hacking.<br><br>Have a good time and I suggest to talk to the people who are now around and trying actively use the kitchen, it takes time to get in to it in the community based place but it is worth of it, have seen lovely creations many times all around the world and it may result in a really cool projects both in the hackerspaces and international hacker happenings.<br><br>Sincerely from Jeju, South Korea,<br><br>Frantisek <br><br><br>Email from Garrett:<br><br>I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.<br><br>The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of<br>beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans<br>and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the<br>kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,<br>but was someone else.<br><br>Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner<br>than you found
it.<br><br>The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates throughout.<br><br>The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few<br>proposed solutions:<br>1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves<br>a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way<br>to get the ticket to go away is to perform 1hr's worth of cleaning<br>service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.<br>2) Hire cleaning service.<br>3) Do nothing.<br><br>A ticket system: pros/cons<br>PRO: Discourages people from being messy<br>PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.<br>PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.<br>CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki pages are editable.<br>CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.<br><br>Hire cleaning service.<br>PRO: It works.<br>CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.<br>CON: It unfairly benefits
those who make messes.<br>CON: It costs money.<br>-- <br>Garrett<br>@xkit<br><a href="http://ChordCycles.com">ChordCycles.com</a><br>garretts.github.io<div><span><br></span></div><div> </div><div>Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck</div><div><br><br></div><div>biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker</div><br><div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a></div><div><br><br></div><div>"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi<br></div><div style="display: block;" class="yahoo_quoted"> <br> <br> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 10pt;"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> On Monday, February 24, 2014 9:00 PM, "<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a>> wrote:<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container">Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to<br> <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br><br>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br> <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br><br>You can reach the person managing the list at<br> <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-owner@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-owner@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss-owner@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br><br>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."<br><br><br>Today's Topics:<br><br> 1. Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Garrett Smith)<br> 2. Re: I asked Josh/N0_Hat to leave (Howard Tsu)<br> 3. 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (John Ellis)<br> 4. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Adrian Chadd)<br> 5. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Ronald Cotoni)<br> 6. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Hannah Grimm)<br> 7. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (The Batkid)<br> 8. A proposal regarding RAYC in the space. (jarrod hicks)<br> 9. Re: Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen (Al Sweigart)<br> 10. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (Al Sweigart)<br> 11. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning
people. (Oren Beck)<br> 12. ToorCamp 2014 (Ben Kochie)<br> 13. Re: 90 Day "Ban" on banning people. (maestro)<br><br><br>----------------------------------------------------------------------<br><br>Message: 1<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 09:22:52 -0800<br>From: Garrett Smith <<a ymailto="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com" href="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com">dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com</a>><br>To: "<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Messy Noisebridge. Especially Kitchen<br>Message-ID:<br> <CABZUbM3aD5cm11-um=+YSE2HuniTcsMOK_QbxqcSeQV4-U=<a ymailto="mailto:HAw@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:HAw@mail.gmail.com">HAw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.<br><br>The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of<br>beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans<br>and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the<br>kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,<br>but was someone else.<br><br>Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner<br>than you found it.<br><br>The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates throughout.<br><br>The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few<br>proposed solutions:<br>1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves<br>a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way<br>to get the ticket to go away is to
perform 1hr's worth of cleaning<br>service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.<br>2) Hire cleaning service.<br>3) Do nothing.<br><br>A ticket system: pros/cons<br>PRO: Discourages people from being messy<br>PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.<br>PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.<br>CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki pages are editable.<br>CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.<br><br>Hire cleaning service.<br>PRO: It works.<br>CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.<br>CON: It unfairly benefits those who make messes.<br>CON: It costs money.<br>-- <br>Garrett<br>@xkit<br><a href="http://ChordCycles.com">ChordCycles.com</a><br>garretts.github.io<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 2<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 10:05:37 -0800<br>From: Howard Tsu <<a ymailto="mailto:howard.tsu@gmail.com" href="mailto:howard.tsu@gmail.com">howard.tsu@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Ronald Cotoni <<a ymailto="mailto:setient@gmail.com" href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] I asked Josh/N0_Hat to leave<br>Message-ID:<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:CAGzq0tVZWVWSfTQ1bj4ip7kfenstmB1b3SeZAk2Lm3825HCVYQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CAGzq0tVZWVWSfTQ1bj4ip7kfenstmB1b3SeZAk2Lm3825HCVYQ@mail.gmail.com">CAGzq0tVZWVWSfTQ1bj4ip7kfenstmB1b3SeZAk2Lm3825HCVYQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>As clarification, the encounter was a disagreement in which improper<br>handling of situation was enacted, and fault was distributed to both<br>parties. The e-mail was not in regards to sleeping at the space. When you<br>asked him to leave, Tom, was it caused by
another disagreement or was it<br>built up from the previous e-mail between him and another member?<br><br><br>On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a ymailto="mailto:setient@gmail.com" href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> I was actually going to confront him today as well. Thank you Tom!<br>><br>><br>> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 2:22 PM, Tom Lowenthal <<a ymailto="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com">me@tomlowenthal.com</a>>wrote:<br>><br>>> Earlier this week, someone informed me that they had found Josh asleep at<br>>> the space and asked him to leave. I just met Josh, and he acknowledged that<br>>> he was asked to leave but refused to comply.<br>>><br>>> I have asked Josh to leave and not to return until 6:30pm on Tuesday<br>>> 2014-02-25. If you see Josh at Noisebridge before then, I ask that you<br>>> remind
him to leave. I'd also appreciate it if you let me know that you saw<br>>> him there.<br>>><br>>> I have proposed banning Josh from Noisebridge. My proposal is on the<br>>> Current Consensus Items page. There is also a pull request against the<br>>> Bureaucracy repo.<br>>><br>>> -Tom<br>>><br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>>><br>>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Ronald Cotoni<br>> Systems Engineer<br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>>
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/5b810b7d/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/5b810b7d/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 3<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:07:47 -0800<br>From: John Ellis <<a ymailto="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>><br>To: "<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CAEKig-hhoQChg539J5NaY1YiaytZMfGpD4QvyLDYPW=<a ymailto="mailto:tvGeOTA@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:tvGeOTA@mail.gmail.com">tvGeOTA@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>This is getting to be way too much drama.<br><br>IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people<br>take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available<br>option.<br><br>-John<br><br>[1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/c3e17f2e/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/c3e17f2e/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 4<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 12:09:32 -0800<br>From: Adrian Chadd <<a ymailto="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com" href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>><br>To: John Ellis <<a ymailto="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: "<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:CAJ-VmokbwnER0z77-6-UuChKCtjfSFacLLeKCRkKN8qA6TwQzQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CAJ-VmokbwnER0z77-6-UuChKCtjfSFacLLeKCRkKN8qA6TwQzQ@mail.gmail.com">CAJ-VmokbwnER0z77-6-UuChKCtjfSFacLLeKCRkKN8qA6TwQzQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <<a ymailto="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> This is getting to be way too much drama.<br>><br>> IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold
for 90 days. Having people take<br>> a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available option.<br>><br>> -John<br>><br>> [1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br><br>What's the drama?<br><br><br>-a<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 5<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 13:57:25 -0800<br>From: Ronald Cotoni <<a ymailto="mailto:setient@gmail.com" href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Adrian Chadd <<a ymailto="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com" href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning
people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CADpY2qs49Dpb=<a ymailto="mailto:3v1odsxcGQvsPzrWhUOEZVKMhpAV_fJrEPbJQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:3v1odsxcGQvsPzrWhUOEZVKMhpAV_fJrEPbJQ@mail.gmail.com">3v1odsxcGQvsPzrWhUOEZVKMhpAV_fJrEPbJQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>Right. I think we need a more automated approach.<br>On Feb 23, 2014 12:09 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <<a ymailto="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com" href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <<a ymailto="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> > This is getting to be way too much drama.<br>> ><br>> > IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people<br>> take<br>> > a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available<br>>
option.<br>> ><br>> > -John<br>> ><br>> > [1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br>><br>> What's the drama?<br>><br>><br>> -a<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/2ffecc87/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/2ffecc87/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 6<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 14:35:38 -0800<br>From: Hannah Grimm <<a ymailto="mailto:dharlette@gmail.com" href="mailto:dharlette@gmail.com">dharlette@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Ronald Cotoni <<a ymailto="mailto:setient@gmail.com" href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:CAL44oTE781UVvBE7Xb-8zfxjSmL1djM-2phxfWn2jvz7OFA-pQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CAL44oTE781UVvBE7Xb-8zfxjSmL1djM-2phxfWn2jvz7OFA-pQ@mail.gmail.com">CAL44oTE781UVvBE7Xb-8zfxjSmL1djM-2phxfWn2jvz7OFA-pQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>I am strongly opposed to us hamstringing our ability to remove potentially<br>toxic individuals from our midst. If you think someone shouldn't be<br>banned, go to the meeting and argue in their favor.<br><br><br>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 1:57 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a ymailto="mailto:setient@gmail.com" href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> Right. I think we need a more automated approach.<br>> On Feb 23, 2014 12:09 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <<a ymailto="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com" href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>><br>>> On 23 February 2014 12:07, John Ellis <<a ymailto="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>> > This is getting to be way too much drama.<br>>> ><br>>> > IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people<br>>> take<br>>> > a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available<br>>> option.<br>>> ><br>>> > -John<br>>> ><br>>> > [1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br>>><br>>> What's the drama?<br>>><br>>><br>>> -a<br>>> _______________________________________________<br>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/4e2f4ab4/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/4e2f4ab4/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 7<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 18:28:54 -0500<br>From: "The Batkid" <<a ymailto="mailto:batkid@gmx.com" href="mailto:batkid@gmx.com">batkid@gmx.com</a>><br>To: <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:20140223232854.299720@gmx.com" href="mailto:20140223232854.299720@gmx.com">20140223232854.299720@gmx.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>I do not think that makes much sense.<br><br>A large fraction of the bans proposed are from a person who was living in the space.<br>There is a very low chance of them
passing.<br>----- Original Message -----<br>From: John Ellis<br>Sent: 02/23/14 12:07 PM<br>To: <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br><br>This is getting to be way too much drama. <br><br>IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available option.<br><br>-John<br><br>[1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/d44ade6a/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/d44ade6a/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 8<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:04:18 -0800<br>From: jarrod hicks <<a ymailto="mailto:hicksu@gmail.com" href="mailto:hicksu@gmail.com">hicksu@gmail.com</a>><br>To: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] A proposal regarding RAYC in the space.<br>Message-ID:<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:CADzk9RXnx6X86iqGUD9yCZw8fqxj3FaQ3SHK2GkvE-VBJT9thg@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:CADzk9RXnx6X86iqGUD9yCZw8fqxj3FaQ3SHK2GkvE-VBJT9thg@mail.gmail.com">CADzk9RXnx6X86iqGUD9yCZw8fqxj3FaQ3SHK2GkvE-VBJT9thg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1<br><br>Howdy
y'all.<br><br>I have been working through my conflicted feelings regarding RAYC's<br>actions and what the council could possibly do regarding them. For<br>reference:<br><br><a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_11" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_11</a><br><br><a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_18" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Meeting_Notes_2014_02_18</a><br><br>I have come up with a draft of a proposal that I hope may lead to a<br>satisfactory resolution for the Noisebridge community.<br><br>I believe that RAYC's actions put the community at risk and are<br>reasonable grounds for a ban, if that is how it must be. However, RAYC<br>has built a considerable amount of goodwill by their work in the space<br>to maintain and improve it. It would be a bummer to remove someone<br>from Noisebridge whom has demonstrated such enthusiasm for it, if they<br>are still
eager to hack at Noisebridge.<br><br>I suggest that RAYC's goodwill in the space is enough to buy them a<br>second chance to be part of Noisebridge and that this goodwill is now<br>spent. I propose that RAYC be allowed to enter the space and<br>participate in the community if they agree to the following<br>conditions:<br><br>1. If RAYC sleeps (napping and so on) again at Noisebridge or its<br>adjacent spaces, they will be automatically banned.<br><br>This one is for RAYC. While some flexibility around the allowance of<br>sleeping exists, in practice, at Noisebridge. RAYC has broken the<br>trust extended to anyone who works at Noisebridge to use the space<br>excellently. By agreeing to this, RAYC agrees that it is reasonable<br>that the community now holds them to a higher standard due to their<br>actions and that they will meet that expectation.<br><br>2. RAYC will take a lead to educate, in an excellent manner, those who<br>will attempt to set up
residency at Noisebridge explaining that such<br>actions are unacceptable.<br><br>This one is for Noisebridge. RAYC has significant knowledge of<br>Noisebridge and uses the space often enough for them to be in a good<br>position to identify and educate heavy and excessive users about our<br>community standards regarding living in the space. This does not grant<br>RAYC any more authority than any one of us has in the space and many<br>members already do this. Taking a lead on this task is a good start to<br>rebuilding the trust and goodwill of the community toward RAYC. In<br>time, and pending good results, the council may remove this explicit<br>requirement from RAYC. Of course, if RAYC fails to demonstrate a good<br>faith effort in this duty, a ban may be called at the council's<br>discretion. Agreement to this means that RAYC will, and is<br>specifically required to, work to protect the space from those who<br>would take advantage of its openness and
RAYC will update the<br>community in this regard, when necessary.<br><br>If RAYC agrees to these conditions, it is my hope that the council<br>would withdraw the proposal to ban them. Hopefully, Noisebridge and<br>RAYC would both benefit from this arrangement.<br><br>Does this sound reasonable and appropriate?<br><br>Thank you for reading this.<br><br>Postscript: I think a temporary ban, without clear standards or<br>conditions to be met leaves Noisebridge in a similar position to what<br>it was in before, upon the banned persons return.<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 9<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:39:55 -0800<br>From: Al Sweigart <<a ymailto="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com">asweigart@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Garrett Smith <<a ymailto="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com" href="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com">dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: "<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>"<br> <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Messy Noisebridge. Especially<br> Kitchen<br>Message-ID:<br> <CAPyZGS=<a ymailto="mailto:HR4dY5_GvvOzSzBM01Dy_avCZbqQkHUA2b7DKqUeT4w@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:HR4dY5_GvvOzSzBM01Dy_avCZbqQkHUA2b7DKqUeT4w@mail.gmail.com">HR4dY5_GvvOzSzBM01Dy_avCZbqQkHUA2b7DKqUeT4w@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>The kitchen is a habitual problem at Noisebridge. In my opinion, having the<br>stove invites more problems than benefit. Historically the people who use<br>the kitchen cannot keep it
clean, food is routinely left out for the mice,<br>and many people use it to cook their personal meals as a part of living at<br>Noisebridge. When I use the floor cleaner at the space, the kitchen<br>requires the most frequent cleaning.<br><br>Getting rid of the stove, but keeping the fridge, oven, and microwave would<br>go a long way to improving the space.<br><br>-Al<br><br><br>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 9:22 AM, Garrett Smith <<a ymailto="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com" href="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com">dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br><br>> I'm here to teach JavaScript class, as usual, on Sunday morning.<br>><br>> The kitchen has been getting more and more disgusting. Today, bowl of<br>> beans/soup, bread all over the place, some of it nibbled on by humans<br>> and probably rats. I did notice a woman recently cooking in the<br>> kitchen. It is not Cynthia, who also does more cleaning than cooking,<br>> but was someone
else.<br>><br>> Each person must take care of his or her own mess. Leave it cleaner<br>> than you found it.<br>><br>> The mixed smell of pee, old food, and I don't know what permeates<br>> throughout.<br>><br>> The problem stems from general slobbery, unfortunately. Here are a few<br>> proposed solutions:<br>> 1) A ticket system, either as an app or wiki page. When someone leaves<br>> a mess out, issue a ticket to that person. Same for sleepers. The way<br>> to get the ticket to go away is to perform 1hr's worth of cleaning<br>> service, to be performed within 1 month, or be banned.<br>> 2) Hire cleaning service.<br>> 3) Do nothing.<br>><br>> A ticket system: pros/cons<br>> PRO: Discourages people from being messy<br>> PRO: If they are, makes them make up for it in a big way.<br>> PRO: Encourages social/peer regulation. Not authoritarian.<br>> CON: Requires creating a Wiki page or app. Wiki
pages are editable.<br>> CON: Might be uncomfortable to issue tickets.<br>><br>> Hire cleaning service.<br>> PRO: It works.<br>> CON: It does not address the cause of the problem.<br>> CON: It unfairly benefits those who make messes.<br>> CON: It costs money.<br>> --<br>> Garrett<br>> @xkit<br>> <a href="http://ChordCycles.com">ChordCycles.com</a><br>> garretts.github.io<br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/e832b0ea/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/e832b0ea/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 10<br>Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2014 19:44:22 -0800<br>From: Al Sweigart <<a ymailto="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com">asweigart@gmail.com</a>><br>To: The Batkid <<a ymailto="mailto:batkid@gmx.com" href="mailto:batkid@gmx.com">batkid@gmx.com</a>><br>Cc: noisebridge-discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CAPyZGSnzV43MRqQ7EGE51sKyXof+gAbGFGqoMX6Ohpu+<a ymailto="mailto:OOy9AQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:OOy9AQ@mail.gmail.com">OOy9AQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br><br>This is a sample of people who have been banned from the space (from the<br><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/86" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/wiki/86 </a>page):<br><br>"This guy went into the back classroom and took Rayc's wallet out of his<br>backpack. Rayc saw him with the wallet in his hand and the guy tried to say<br>it was his. He then started running towards the door and was tackled by<br>Jake."<br><br>"Banned by consensus 2013-10-01 for physical assaulting another Noisebridge<br>user."<br><br>"Stole from the member's shelves and from me."<br><br>"Several days later he returned to Noisebridge with his hand shoved in a<br>gym bag, claiming he had as he continued pushing past people to get into<br>the main space, screaming constantly about killing eveyone and
then<br>himself."<br><br>These are not people you want to have stay away from the space for "a<br>while". You want them permanently gone.<br><br>And anyway, I see no reason why the "drama" from proposing a person be<br>banned for 180 days will be any less than proposing a person be banned<br>permanently.<br><br>-Al<br><br><br>On Sun, Feb 23, 2014 at 3:28 PM, The Batkid <<a ymailto="mailto:batkid@gmx.com" href="mailto:batkid@gmx.com">batkid@gmx.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>> I do not think that makes much sense.<br>><br>> A large fraction of the bans proposed are from a person who was living in<br>> the space.<br>> There is a very low chance of them passing.<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>><br>> From: John Ellis<br>><br>> Sent: 02/23/14 12:07 PM<br>><br>> To: <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>><br>> Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>><br>> This is getting to be way too much drama.<br>><br>> IMO We should put all permanent bans on hold for 90 days. Having people<br>> take a break for a period of time (Up to 180 Days) is still an available<br>> option.<br>><br>> -John<br>><br>> [1] <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Current_Consensus_Items</a><br>><br>><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>> <a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>><br>><br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/29e9c0de/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140223/29e9c0de/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 11<br>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 14:01:29 +0800<br>From: Oren Beck <<a ymailto="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com" href="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com">orenbeck@gmail.com</a>><br>To: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re:
[Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CAHdyy+<a ymailto="mailto:8js1yGhCkzr_r8faHA9tLGHzTd-Ht3sM1Rs-oyeywfZQ@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:8js1yGhCkzr_r8faHA9tLGHzTd-Ht3sM1Rs-oyeywfZQ@mail.gmail.com">8js1yGhCkzr_r8faHA9tLGHzTd-Ht3sM1Rs-oyeywfZQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br><br>Speaking as a distant observer yet "spiritually" invested in Noisebridge,<br>I ask us a sober question.<br><br>ARE we being faithful to the vision that Mitch and the other founders<br>wanted when they began this??<br>-------------- next part --------------<br>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>URL: <<a href="http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140224/cd17eed5/attachment-0001.html" target="_blank">http://www.noisebridge.net/pipermail/noisebridge-discuss/attachments/20140224/cd17eed5/attachment-0001.html</a>><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 12<br>Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2014 00:13:57 -0800 (PST)<br>From: Ben Kochie <<a ymailto="mailto:ben@nerp.net" href="mailto:ben@nerp.net">ben@nerp.net</a>><br>To: <a ymailto="mailto:congress@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:congress@lists.noisebridge.net">congress@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <a ymailto="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] ToorCamp 2014<br>Message-ID: <<a ymailto="mailto:alpine.DEB.2.10.1402240005080.6297@chef.nerp.net" href="mailto:alpine.DEB.2.10.1402240005080.6297@chef.nerp.net">alpine.DEB.2.10.1402240005080.6297@chef.nerp.net</a>><br>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; format=flowed;
charset=US-ASCII<br><br>Hey everyone who likes to go camping and hack.<br><br>ToorCamp[0] will be this year, July 9-13. At the same location as it was <br>last time, Hobuck Beach Resort in Neah Bay, WA.<br><br>I'll be traveling to ToorCamp with Milliways folks. I'm planning to bring <br>back the DramaCafe[1] working together with the Milliways crew.<br><br>I'm planning to organize most of the shopping and equipment work out of <br>Seattle so we don't have to haul as much stuff from CA.<br><br>If you're interesed in helping out with the kitchen, let me know.<br><br>Otherwise, start planning your ToorCamp projects!<br><br>[0]: <a href="http://toorcamp.org/node/32087" target="_blank">http://toorcamp.org/node/32087</a><br>[1]: <a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Toorcamp_2012/DramaCafe" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Toorcamp_2012/DramaCafe</a><br><br>-ben<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>Message: 13<br>Date: Mon,
24 Feb 2014 00:42:47 -0800<br>From: maestro <<a ymailto="mailto:maestro415@gmail.com" href="mailto:maestro415@gmail.com">maestro415@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Oren Beck <<a ymailto="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com" href="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com">orenbeck@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: Noisebridge-discuss <<a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 90 Day "Ban" on banning people.<br>Message-ID:<br> <CANe-2tfcmgNmaOOCdwTQY2ma06tOEnUxNi7+A+<a ymailto="mailto:OmM1N7W2mi7Q@mail.gmail.com" href="mailto:OmM1N7W2mi7Q@mail.gmail.com">OmM1N7W2mi7Q@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br><br>+1...<br>sadly those with the 'faith' are thinning in sentient attendance<br>and/or quietly observing from the forest(s) until the hitler youth are<br>burned up once
again.<br>so goeth the cycle.<br><br>On 2/23/14, Oren Beck <<a ymailto="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com" href="mailto:orenbeck@gmail.com">orenbeck@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Speaking as a distant observer yet "spiritually" invested in Noisebridge,<br>> I ask us a sober question.<br>><br>> ARE we being faithful to the vision that Mitch and the other founders<br>> wanted when they began this??<br>><br><br><br>-- <br><br><br>*~the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear...*<br><br><br>------------------------------<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br><a ymailto="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br><br><br>End of Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 76, Issue 24<br>***************************************************<br><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div> </div></div></blockquote></body></html>