<div dir="ltr">That's fine. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 March 2014 22:59, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Charles, a heated conversation can be constructive, but an uncivil conversation cannot. If you can't keep from cussing at people, don't participate in the thread.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>-Al</div></font></span><div><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:54 PM, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">The same can be used for the word "crazy."<div><br></div><div>At least my name calling was divorced from an individuals identity. It was related to actions and statements constituting his identity within a short context or moment, not that his functional being was that of a donkey. </div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 March 2014 22:50, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div>> <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">9. The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid. </span></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
> 10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.</div><div><br></div></div><div><div>> <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Don't be an ass.</span></div><div><br></div></div>> <span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">You're an ass.</span><div>
<span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Charles, criticism is welcome. Direct, blunt criticism is as well. But do not resort to name-calling and cussing at Jake or anyone else on the mailing list.</span></div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">-Al</span></div></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Deconstruction:</div><div><div><br></div><div>"<span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy."</span><br>
</div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-size:13px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Don't use the word crazy, and I don't think there are established sleeping spots at noise-bridge. </span></div>
<div>
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic. read this:</span><br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><a href="http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/mp/<u></u>journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/<u></u>mp2013174a.html</a>"<div>
<br></div></div><div>We all know there is an association between sleeping and mental health. But, lack of sleep doesn't actually make an individual "schizophrenic." The article is about mice. Nice one, you're a jerk.<div>
<br>
<br style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">"schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough. When we allow people to depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and more insane.""</span></div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><br></span></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Neither of these individuals were or are schizophrenic.</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br>
</font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">You're an ass. </font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div><font face="arial, sans-serif">If anyone would like to discuss not using crypto-language, not using references to youtube music videos or mice, I'd prefer to talk in person.</font></div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px">Here is my thought:<div><br></div><div>1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to sleep at noise-bridge.</div>
<div>
<br></div><div>2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive. </div><div><br></div><div>3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An individuals "ability level" should not constitute exclusion. <br>
</div><div><br></div><div>4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals, marginalizing these individuals.</div><div><br></div><div>5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any other person could do: <a href="http://schizophrenia.com/famous" target="_blank">http://schizophrenia.com/famous</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>6. They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.</div><div><br></div><div>7. Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand. </div><div><br></div><div>8. Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an exclusion. </div>
<div><br></div><div>9. The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid. </div><div><br></div><div>10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.</div><div><br></div><div>An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism. Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to carve this population out) wouldn't.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior. </div></div></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><img></div>
</div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 March 2014 22:32, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Here is my thought:<div><br></div><div>1. Schizophrenia is not a mental disability that makes people want to sleep at noise-bridge.</div><div><br></div><div>2. Not all Individuals who have schizophrenia are aggressive. </div>
<div><br></div><div>3. Such a statement should not be welcomed in the space. An individuals "ability level" should not constitute exclusion. <br></div><div><br></div><div>4. This rhetoric is placing a glass-ceiling on said individuals, marginalizing these individuals.</div>
<div><br></div><div>5. Schizophrenics are not incapable of hacking, or doing anything any other person could do: <a href="http://schizophrenia.com/famous" target="_blank">http://schizophrenia.com/famous</a></div><div><br>
</div><div>6. They knew about the NSA spying on you before you did.</div>
<div><br></div><div>7. Some may have abilities you couldn't possibly even understand. </div><div><br></div><div>8. Think of the one person you could lose, off the basis of such an exclusion. </div><div><br></div><div>
9. The "own home" analogy is fucking stupid. </div><div><br></div><div>10. Everything about that email was ass-ish.</div><div><br></div><div>An individuals thought process shouldn't be the function of criticism. Rather, the conclusion or action should. What if they are right? What if it were possible that any individual with schizophrenia just happens to stumble upon something that a "normal" (how ever the fuck you decide to carve this population out) wouldn't.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Don't be an ass. This is not acceptable behavior. </div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 5 March 2014 22:14, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Charles, I know it's fun to make jokes, but this is an issue that a lot of people would like to have serious discussion about. We welcome your input, but keep the comedy to a minimum.<span><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>
-Al</div></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 10:09 PM, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">And yes, all of us schizophrenics are such terrible people. We are such terrible people and should just sit in our apartments and smoke all day long. <div>
<br></div><div>So everyone at the NSA, or otherwise, can tapp their phones while they are off, and so everyone can freak out. </div>
<div><br></div><div>Maybe I should buy a $10 burner phone, for "insurance." </div><div><br></div><div>Just incase. </div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On 5 March 2014 22:07, Charles Tang <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:cjtang1@asu.edu" target="_blank">cjtang1@asu.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dude, sleepers are NSA agents. <div><br></div><div>This has been established. </div><div><br></div><div>
Lets use better crytpo-language. </div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On 5 March 2014 21:36, Ronald Cotoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com" target="_blank">setient@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">I pretty much agree. I still think we need more people around ALL THE TIME to solve these issues with the way noisebridge is designed. We simply don't have enough right now. We are talking about some house rules for noisebridge which may or may not address this issue. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 5, 2014 at 4:26 PM, Jake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jake@spaz.org" target="_blank">jake@spaz.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am disturbed to see that people still don't understand why it's a problem that people sleep at noisebridge.<br>
<br>
It's not because it's against the lease, although this is true. It's because it fucks up our ability to have a hackerspace and submerges us in roommate drama. seriously.<br>
<br>
San Francisco is a very expensive place to rent a room. This means that any place people can sleep for free is very valuable. As long as noisebridge allows people to sleep, those people will be very strongly motivated to maintain their access to that sleeping space, regardless of the consequences to the culture and function of that space in general. It seems that Josh/N0_HAT was/is defending his "turf" with aggression and whatever tactics would wear down the community enough to keep his spot.<br>
<br>
When sleepers take the other road from Josh, which is "i wasn't sleeping" or "I just fell asleep while i was hacking this uh circuitboard thingy" it's just as problematic, because when people reduce their sleeping quantity/quality to avoid losing their sleeping spot, they get crazy.<br>
<br>
sleeping is important to clear the brain of toxins, and when people don't get enough sleep they actually get schizophrenic. read this:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/mp2013174a.html" target="_blank">http://www.nature.com/mp/<u></u>journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/<u></u>mp2013174a.html</a><br>
<br>
schizophrenics suffer from an inability to get autophagy, or the cleaning of the brain, even if they sleep enough. When we allow people to depend on noisebridge as their sleeping space, they either become aggressively defensive of their turf (like Josh) or they hide in the shadows catching minimal sleep (like Rayc) and become gradually more and more insane.<br>
<br>
Both of these behaviors are destructive to our safe space and take away from our ability to have a nice hackerspace where we can gather as a community. The solution is to refuse entry to noisebridge by people who use the space as a sleeping place.<br>
<br>
If anyone has a problem with disallowing people from the space who are known to sleep there, I recommend that they invite these people into their own homes instead of being hypocritical and making it everyone else's problem.<span><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
-jake<br>
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</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br>Ronald Cotoni<div>Systems Engineer</div>
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