<div dir="ltr">HAhahahhahah. Well volunteered, Naomi! <3</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Naomi Most <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">That /is/ pretty amazing.<br>
<br>
I hope someone comes up with a theory-based way to calculate this metric.<br>
<br>
Like, "based on $HACKERSPACE's gender diversity index, choice of<br>
governance model, percentage participation by membership, and<br>
percentage of activity on the mailing list, $HACKERSPACE has an<br>
expected Time To Ban Patrick Keys of X weeks, 2 days, and 3 hours."<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
<br>
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Hannah Grimm <<a href="mailto:dharlette@gmail.com">dharlette@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> I want you all to know that the concept of "Time taken to ban Patrick Keys"<br>
> as a hackerspace-efficiency metric has completely made my day.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:05 AM, John Ellis <<a href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com">neurofog@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge. It<br>
>> didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the space,<br>
>> and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came about a<br>
>> week or two after that.<br>
>><br>
>> How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?<br>
>><br>
>> -John<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <<a href="mailto:terminationshok@gmail.com">terminationshok@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> I like how "time taken to ban Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for<br>
>>> hackerspace administrative efficiency.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <<a href="mailto:dean.mao@hackerdojo.com">dean.mao@hackerdojo.com</a>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably less<br>
>>>> "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has<br>
>>>> skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair during<br>
>>>> normal business hours. We still have the occasional sleeper at night, but<br>
>>>> because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually doesn't<br>
>>>> persist. When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of 3-4<br>
>>>> people and it was a done deal. You guys should definitely reconsider how<br>
>>>> you ban people. We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban approval<br>
>>>> to make it happen.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com">asweigart@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Here's the difference that I think an active board can make:<br>
>>>>> Noisebridge has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't ban<br>
>>>>> people or that we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited second<br>
>>>>> chances. (The first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually<br>
>>>>> harassing multiple women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get him<br>
>>>>> banned and not just suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a tiny<br>
>>>>> minority can block, delay, and in general abuse process to wear out their<br>
>>>>> opponents.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes<br>
>>>>> decisions by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make<br>
>>>>> decisions. This includes suspending and banning people for bad behavior.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> (Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior",<br>
>>>>> tyranny of the majority, etc.)<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more power<br>
>>>>> just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many new<br>
>>>>> members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new people.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> -Al<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
>>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I am with what hep said. I am also with Naomi. This is a<br>
>>>>>> hackerspace. Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve problems. I<br>
>>>>>> am also with Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because<br>
>>>>>> noisebridge was not safe enough or good enough. I also understand that some<br>
>>>>>> people just like working with other females and don't even want to bother at<br>
>>>>>> this stage of their lives. I just feel it was mostly a response to<br>
>>>>>> Noisebridge not being safe and not the latter.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.<br>
>>>>>>> But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address<br>
>>>>>>> problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've<br>
>>>>>>> certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to fix<br>
>>>>>>> things.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct<br>
>>>>>>> people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at<br>
>>>>>>> Noisebridge. My idea of a positive change would be to have the board<br>
>>>>>>> managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming<br>
>>>>>>> working groups. I believe these improvements will make a lot of the<br>
>>>>>>> other crap die down naturally.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <<a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org">dis@gruntle.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> > And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the<br>
>>>>>>> > last 5yr<br>
>>>>>>> > how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge<br>
>>>>>>> > because of<br>
>>>>>>> > sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in a<br>
>>>>>>> > manner<br>
>>>>>>> > where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable<br>
>>>>>>> > contributing<br>
>>>>>>> > people have left nb because of its failure to address major<br>
>>>>>>> > infrastructure<br>
>>>>>>> > problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual abuse<br>
>>>>>>> > and makes<br>
>>>>>>> > the culture more welcoming to those who would positively<br>
>>>>>>> > contribute, then i<br>
>>>>>>> > am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to be<br>
>>>>>>> > somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring my<br>
>>>>>>> > childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to the<br>
>>>>>>> > next<br>
>>>>>>> > victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because<br>
>>>>>>> > there are no<br>
>>>>>>> > protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.<br>
>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>> > -hep<br>
>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer<br>
>>>>>>> > <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>
>>>>>>> > wrote:<br>
>>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>>> >> I think it is important to note that in the context of a<br>
>>>>>>> >> hackerspace,<br>
>>>>>>> >> there is<br>
>>>>>>> >> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing the<br>
>>>>>>> >> people<br>
>>>>>>> >> who<br>
>>>>>>> >> hack on the infrastructure.<br>
>>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>>> >> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads to<br>
>>>>>>> >> bad times<br>
>>>>>>> >> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.<br>
>>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>>> > --<br>
>>>>>>> > hep<br>
>>>>>>> > hepic photography || <a href="http://www.hepic.net" target="_blank">www.hepic.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> > <a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org">dis@gruntle.org</a> || <a href="tel:415%20867%209472" value="+14158679472">415 867 9472</a><br>
>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> > Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> > <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> > <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>>> Naomi Theora Most<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> skype: nthmost<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="http://twitter.com/nthmost" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nthmost</a><br>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --<br>
>>>>>> Ronald Cotoni<br>
>>>>>> Systems Engineer<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> --<br>
>>>> Dean Mao<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:dean.mao@hackerdojo.com">dean.mao@hackerdojo.com</a><br>
>>>> Come visit us, we love new people!<br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.hackerdojo.com" target="_blank">www.hackerdojo.com</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Naomi Theora Most<br>
<a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
<br>
skype: nthmost<br>
<br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/nthmost" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nthmost</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>