<div dir="ltr">I want you all to know that the concept of "Time taken to ban Patrick Keys" as a hackerspace-efficiency metric has completely made my day.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">
On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 12:05 AM, John Ellis <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:neurofog@gmail.com" target="_blank">neurofog@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Considering he was the first to get formally banned from Noisebridge. It didn't take long for a group of us to decide he wasn't welcome in the space, and we'd ask him to leave if we saw him. The actual consensus came about a week or two after that.<div>
<br></div><div>How long did he last at Hacker Dojo?</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div><br></div><div>-John</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:56 PM, Dan Cote <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:terminationshok@gmail.com" target="_blank">terminationshok@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I like how "time taken to ban <font face="arial, sans-serif">Patrick Keyes" has become a metric for hackerspace administrative efficiency.</font><div>
<font face="arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div>
<div><font face="arial, sans-serif">Does Hacker Dojo ban many people?</font></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 4:17 PM, Dean Mao <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dean.mao@hackerdojo.com" target="_blank">dean.mao@hackerdojo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">The Hacker Dojo is arguably younger than noisebridge and probably less "membership-oriented" compared to noisebridge, but our membership has skyrocketed to the point where it's hard to find an empty chair during normal business hours. We still have the occasional sleeper at night, but because we are so fast at banning people, that problem usually doesn't persist. When we banned patrick keyes, it only required a meeting of 3-4 people and it was a done deal. You guys should definitely reconsider how you ban people. We didn't have to ask all of our directors for ban approval to make it happen. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 11:06 AM, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hep, your description of Noisebridge is spot on.<div><br></div><div>Here's the difference that I think an active board can make: Noisebridge has taken to the extreme a philosophy that we shouldn't ban people or that we should give bad behavior effectively unlimited second chances. (The first person we banned was Patrick Keyes for sexually harassing multiple women, and even then it was pulling teeth to get him banned and not just suspended.) Consensus is what affords this: a tiny minority can block, delay, and in general abuse process to wear out their opponents.</div>
<div><br></div><div>A board does not have to endlessly talk about policy and makes decisions by majority vote: a board can set policy and *gasp* make decisions. This includes suspending and banning people for bad behavior.</div>
<div><br></div><div>(Obligatory footnote about abuse of power, "define bad behavior", tyranny of the majority, etc.)</div><div><br></div><div>Consensus is what holds Noisebridge hostage: a 1% can have more power just because they have more volume, and meanwhile we can't get many new members because we are so afraid of extending this power to new people.</div>
<span><font color="#888888">
<div><br></div><div>-Al</div></font></span></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Ronald Cotoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com" target="_blank">setient@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I am with what hep said. I am also with Naomi. This is a hackerspace. Lets hack the system and figure out how to solve problems. I am also with Al that I feel sad that UU had to even exist because noisebridge was not safe enough or good enough. I also understand that some people just like working with other females and don't even want to bother at this stage of their lives. I just feel it was mostly a response to Noisebridge not being safe and not the latter. </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:49 AM, Naomi Most <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
I am openly biased towards anarchism and lack of top-down control.<br>
But we can't keep shouting down the idea of "oversight" to address<br>
problems that Noisebridge has had for YEEAAARRRSSS when we've<br>
certainly given the Noisebridge traditional methods that long to fix<br>
things.<br>
<br>
For the record, I don't agree with the idea of direct<br>
people-management or in changing the way we arrive at decisions at<br>
Noisebridge. My idea of a positive change would be to have the board<br>
managing facilities and facilitating participation -- e.g. forming<br>
working groups. I believe these improvements will make a lot of the<br>
other crap die down naturally.<br>
<br>
And as it turns out, that's what we're going to do first.<br>
<div><div><br>
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:46 AM, hep <<a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org" target="_blank">dis@gruntle.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> And that would be different from what noisebridge has had in the last 5yr<br>
> how? as it stands, many women do not feel safe at noisebridge because of<br>
> sexual assault and the past somewhat failure to deal with it in a manner<br>
> where women felt safe and listened to at nb. many valuable contributing<br>
> people have left nb because of its failure to address major infrastructure<br>
> problems. if having a more active board helps to stop sexual abuse and makes<br>
> the culture more welcoming to those who would positively contribute, then i<br>
> am 100% down with active management. i would like noisebridge to be<br>
> somewhere i can bring friends to interest them in hacking, bring my<br>
> childrens' school championship robotics team to inspire them to the next<br>
> victory, not a place where i am fearful to go on my own because there are no<br>
> protections or infrastructure to ensure basic safety.<br>
><br>
> -hep<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> I think it is important to note that in the context of a hackerspace,<br>
>> there is<br>
>> a difference between managing the infrastructure and managing the people<br>
>> who<br>
>> hack on the infrastructure.<br>
>><br>
>> From experience, just saying "active management" easily leads to bad times<br>
>> and, uh, rather verbose mailing list threads.<br>
>><br>
> --<br>
> hep<br>
> hepic photography || <a href="http://www.hepic.net" target="_blank">www.hepic.net</a><br>
> <a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org" target="_blank">dis@gruntle.org</a> || <a href="tel:415%20867%209472" value="+14158679472" target="_blank">415 867 9472</a><br>
><br>
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<br>
<br>
</div><span><font color="#888888">--<br>
Naomi Theora Most<br>
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