<div dir="ltr">Hey Jessica, you have to understand that sleeping has always exploited the gray area since there is no "no sleeping at all" rule. It's against the lease to use Noisebridge as a residence. Of course, people can abuse the definition of "living at NB" anyway they want: As long as they aren't receiving mail at 2169 Mission, people can say they aren't residing at the space.<div>
<br></div><div>And even when they're told to stop, they don't have to leave. They can just sleep overnight at the space less often. For a while.</div><div><br></div><div>The same goes for sleeping. If you ask the sleepers, they're NEVER "sleeping" at the space. They're "napping", or "resting their eyes", or "sleep hacking".</div>
<div><br></div><div>This is why any rule that does not have a punitive consequence of "if you are sleeping, you'll be suspended and/or banned from the space" will never solve the problem. This is why the problem has gone on for years.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 11:07 AM, Jessica Ross <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jessica.r.ross@gmail.com" target="_blank">jessica.r.ross@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Why can't you guys rebut this with "It's against the terms of the lease and could get us evicted"?<div>
<br></div><div>It's BS that you're even still debating this!</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:44 PM, Al Sweigart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Kevin is against banning sleeping at the space because he and his friends like to sleep at the space. He helped build the "hacker stacker" bunk beds that were in the space which, unsurprisingly, were used for more than just short naps in the space.<div>
<br></div><div>Kevin will single-handedly block any measure to ban sleeping without compromise, because consensus lets him do this. He is against any actual punitive consequences because he knows that even if people are woken up and told not to sleep at the space, they can just do so again the next night (or just later that same morning).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Hey, if the majority of Noisebridge members said they were fine with people sleeping at the space, I would back down on my stance. Whereas Kevin will barge in on a meeting an hour late and then get his way.</div>
<div><br></div><div>The thing that gets me is that he doesn't even have to publicly defend his unpopular view in order to get his way. (Note that he didn't mention sleeping at all in his email on this thread, even though that's the elephant in the room.) All he has to do is keep saying "there needs to more discussion" week after week until the issue fades into the background once more.</div>
</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 12:35 AM, Kevin Schiesser <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Brandon Edens:<br>
<div><div>> Hi all,<br>
><br>
> The consensus of Noisebridge is that we have some house rules. You can read<br>
> about them here...<br>
> <a href="https://github.com/noisebridge/bureaucracy/blob/master/rules/house-rules.md" target="_blank">https://github.com/noisebridge/bureaucracy/blob/master/rules/house-rules.md</a><br>
><br>
> Enjoy!<br>
> Brandon<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div>I barged into the open meeting an hour late tonight and rejected the<br>
civility of passing this proposal, given I had aired unaddressed<br>
concerns. Discussion on the proposal was reopened, hence Noisebridge has<br>
not come to consensus on 'house rules'.<br>
<br>
I will be preparing an alternative draft. If anyone wants to<br>
collaborate, contact me via email or let's work though github.<br>
<br>
Generally, I favor 'community agreements'. I oppose punitive measures,<br>
and do not believe punitive measure will positively transform Noisebridge.<br>
<br>
If agreements are to be codified, we should start with the most<br>
abundantly clear agreements... We agree not to attempt to repair the<br>
elevator, not to go on the roof (unless maintenancing an antenna), not<br>
to go in the basement, not to go on the fire escape, not to live at<br>
Noisebridge. We also agree that projects kept on the hacker shelves in<br>
the SW corner of the space or kept in personal lockers belong to<br>
participants in the community and are not for general purpose hacking.<br>
<Add your own agreement>.<br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
-Kevin<br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span><font color="#888888">-- <br><div dir="ltr">Jessica R. Ross<br><a href="mailto:jessica.r.ross@gmail.com" target="_blank">jessica.r.ross@gmail.com</a></div>
</font></span></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>