<p dir="ltr">You know what, perhaps that should be a list wide thing. It shows respect and transparency. What does everyone think?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 27, 2014 9:06 PM, "Hannah Grimm" <<a href="mailto:dharlette@gmail.com">dharlette@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">At this point, I think it should be clear that Rachel <b>does not</b> want to be contacted off-list. Johnny is aware of that, and any further attempts at off-list communication would likely fall under "persistent unwanted communication" which is forbidden by our anti-harassment policy.<div>
<br></div><div>Johnny's initial messages were unwanted, but I don't think they qualify as persistent yet. It was probably a misunderstanding, but hep is correct that repeatedly pushing boundaries and then apologizing when you're called out is <a href="https://gist.github.com/doubleunionboard/9222410" target="_blank">a pattern frequently used as a cover for intentional bad behavior.</a> Could we perhaps all agree that a line has been drawn, Johnny now knows where it is, and leave it at that until/unless he tries to push that boundary again?</div>
<div><br></div><div>As an aside, just to make my preferences clear, I also prefer not to be contacted off-list. I suspect that's probably true of most of the women here, though obviously I can only speak for myself. I've relied on the "soft no" of just not responding to off-list emails in the past, but I realize it may be wiser to just be explicit about it.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Could we please return to treating each other civilly now?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 8:19 PM, hep <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org" target="_blank">dis@gruntle.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I also agree that Johnny knew about this request. I will note that this is something that many female tech persons have to deal with, having their wishes for contact explicitly ignored and then having the calling out of that behavior questioned. "misunderstanding" seems to go a long way towards excusing boundary crossing behavior. <span><font color="#888888"><div>
<br></div><div>-hep </div></font></span></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:18 PM, Naomi Gmail <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>...... I think Rachel is on target here. Johny must have previously seen Rachel's post-to-list behavior and deliberately wrote that to bother her. </div>
<div><br></div><div>If I imagine Johny writing that to anyone else it seems pretty nonsensical. <span><font color="#888888"><br><br>--Naomi</font></span></div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br>On Mar 27, 2014, at 7:11 PM, Al Sweigart <<a href="mailto:asweigart@gmail.com" target="_blank">asweigart@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><p dir="ltr">Because he added the request for you to post to the list does not mean he knew that you did not want to be privately messaged, if I follow this right.</p>
<p dir="ltr">But he does know now, so he won't. I agree with Ryan, this does seem like a misunderstanding.</p>
<div style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Lolol.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Johny's claim of innocence here would make sense if he hadn't appended a request to post his messages to the list to both private emails he sent me.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I don't expect an apology from him, but if he is calling the quote I posted a lie that's interesting, and if he expects anyone to believe that he didn't know about this desire of mine then I don't really know what that quote was supposed to mean. Here's the request he put in his other email to me:<br>
"I hope you don't like this message so that you share it on-list."</p>
<p dir="ltr">Do you deny writing that, johny? Be sure to tell my killfile all about it.</p>
<p dir="ltr">I'll say that in fact the times we've encountered each other at noisebridge I've been, if anything, rude to him, since I think he's <elided negative words>.</p>
<p dir="ltr">R.</p>
<div style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">In summary; a misunderstanding, all is good.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Mar 27, 2014 8:19 PM, "Johny Radio" <<a href="mailto:johnyradio@gmail.com" target="_blank">johnyradio@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><span>
<div>------ Original Message ------</div>
<div>From: "hep" <<a href="mailto:dis@gruntle.org" target="_blank">dis@gruntle.org</a>></div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<blockquote cite="http://CAFa6jsdJ7yaRsWVQZ4rxghYEfpUcYvh7cpX2oEChJ69z1ksjGg@mail.gmail.com" type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Rachel asked *everyone* to please message her onlist in at least one recent thread that I read</div></blockquote></div>
<div></div></span> </div>
<div>Unfortunately, i don't have time to read every post to the list. So no, i did not see that. Nor do i feel it's my responsibility to read every post by rachelyra, to make sure i don't miss any general instructions. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>And since Rachel and i have chilled in-person at NB with friendly vibes, i had no reason to assume that. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>To Spinach claim, Rachel never asked me, Johny Radio, not to message her off-list, as Spinach stated. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>If Rachel, or anybody, does not want to be messaged off-list, i suggest you put that in your signature in every post you send. </div>
<div> </div>
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