<div dir="ltr">My take on events that involve sex is that I should never be surprised by them. I should know, well before seeing the fucking machine or bondage clowns, that that is the content of a given presentation. That probably means announcements on the wiki/mailing list, AND a prominent warning sign on the door of Noisebridge on the day in question. A sex-including 5mof presentation should not be a surprise either, whoever the MC is should probably have informed the crowd that that was going to happen, and ideally schedule that particular talk near the end of the night so that those who don't want to participate can leave without missing much else. And that's for presentations that are inherently <b>about</b> sex, if you just want to throw some random boobs into your cryptography presentation to sex it up then you need to rethink your presentation.<div>
<br></div><div>If I walked in on people being fucked in public, then I would neeeeever come back. It should be very, very easy for me to avoid that if it's something I don't want to see.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 7, 2014 at 8:14 AM, Ceren Ercen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ceren@ercen.com" target="_blank">ceren@ercen.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><p dir="ltr">Nope, Will's right. A woman freaked out by a confrontational sex act in front of her is not under some sort of obligation to try to excuse or contextualize it before she's allowed to have any emotional reaction. As Praveen's email read standing alone, it required insider historical knowledge of Noisebridge to not be, frankly, deeply uncomfortable with the event as presented. Even I cringed. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Just as tits-grabbing on entrance to a house or party isn't excuseable by saying "oh, if you weren't so new to this group, you'd get it, haha, it's a running joke", this, too, as it was presented out of context, looked pretty horrific. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Please be a little more aware of context when writing your emails - presenting this as a Wacky Thing That Noisebridge Does and Is Intrinsic To Our Character in your enthusiasm in listing such things doesn't excuse how deeply uncomfortable the mention can make any someone who isn't "in the know", and she never deserves to be intimidated like that. Any hypothetical "she" is not required to read the whole of noisebridge-archive to say "wow, that thing you described just now really would make me upset and uncomfortable". That is an unreasonable burden. </p>
<div><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 5, 2014 6:55 PM, "Naomi Most" <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Actually, I think Hannah was unfair. Rather than try to find out what<br>
the context was, she immediately moved to criticize it.<br>
<br>
--Naomi<br>
<br>
<br>
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 3:50 PM, William Sargent <<a href="mailto:will.sargent@gmail.com" target="_blank">will.sargent@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Naomi, this is unfair. Hannah was perfectly correct. Praveen presented a sex act in Noisebridge out of context of a presentation of Sex and Technology, and Hannah read it as he presented it. If there's no warning and no discussion, then there's no consent to being involved in those activities.<br>
><br>
> I remember people being distinctly uncomfortable with "sexy clowns" being presented at Five Minutes of Fame, and that had no actual nudity involved.<br>
><br>
> Will.<br>
><br>
> On Apr 5, 2014, at 3:41 PM, Naomi Most <<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Yes, I think Hannah did nail it.<br>
>><br>
>> She successfully demonstrated that she, as well as you, have no<br>
>> recollection of what Noisebridge culture was, and have only knee-jerk<br>
>> reactions to provide instead of actual understanding.<br>
>><br>
>> --Naomi<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 1:11 PM, Tom Lowenthal <<a href="mailto:me@tomlowenthal.com" target="_blank">me@tomlowenthal.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> On Fri, Apr 4, 2014 at 7:33 PM, Praveen Sinha <<a href="mailto:dmhomee@gmail.com" target="_blank">dmhomee@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> In that, I submit that our pains have not to do with mismanagment, but<br>
>>>> that we need to grow into our next phase for an even larger and more dynamic<br>
>>>> community: I don't know what it's going to look like or what the outcome<br>
>>>> will be, but as everyone is shuffling about in this latest re-org, I think<br>
>>>> it's important to think bigger and more radical and more creative and more<br>
>>>> inclusive. As a hackerspace, we can go in directions no other space or<br>
>>>> collective on the planet is capable of at the moment. Keep it mind as we<br>
>>>> fight our battles, whatever side of drama you wind up on.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hannah wrote:<br>
>>>> Praveen, this is not as simple as an issue of "inclusion" and a happy little<br>
>>>> collective. The truth of the matter is that when you include some people,<br>
>>>> you cause others to feel threatened & unsafe and thereby exclude them.<br>
>>>> People who are high at Noisebridge tend to cross boundaries, and one of<br>
>>>> those boundaries is often the bodily autonomy of women at the space. San<br>
>>>> Francisco is full of places where people can go to see folks screw in<br>
>>>> public, Noisebridge does not need to be one of them. If you want to display<br>
>>>> your bondage technology, go to Wicked Grounds! If you want to get high in<br>
>>>> public, go to Dolores Park! The place full of collectively owned powertools<br>
>>>> is not the correct venue for those activities.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I think Hannah pretty much nailed it.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> I think that Noisebridge is a hackerspace, and our stated goal is to<br>
>>> be a place where diverse sorts of people feel safe and comfortable<br>
>>> working on and talking about their technical-creative projects. I'm<br>
>>> quite certain that other things can happen at Noisebridge; many do.<br>
>>> When we're thinking about another activity, considering whether it's a<br>
>>> good fit for Noisebridge, the most important question we should ask<br>
>>> is:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> "Does this enable or interfere with Noisebridge as place where diverse sorts<br>
>>>> of people feel safe and comfortable working on and talking about their technical-<br>
>>>> -creative projects.?"<br>
>>><br>
>>> Our answer to this question should be the most important factor in<br>
>>> determining what to do. If there's something that makes people feel<br>
>>> *less* safe and comfortable, or makes it *harder* to work on<br>
>>> technical-creative projects, we should recognise that -- although this<br>
>>> activity may be totally reasonable in general -- Noisebridge isn't the<br>
>>> place for it.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hugs & kisses,<br>
>>> -Tom<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Naomi Theora Most<br>
>> <a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com" target="_blank">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
>> <a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490" target="_blank">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
>><br>
>> skype: nthmost<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://twitter.com/nthmost" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nthmost</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
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>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Naomi Theora Most<br>
<a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com" target="_blank">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490" target="_blank">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
<br>
skype: nthmost<br>
<br>
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