<div dir="ltr">You are right, I knew Matt and Jenny were involved in sudoroom. Lets all get together and solve these problems. I should change the tone of my email to be not so aggressive. <div><br></div><div>What I was hoping for is education saturation. That means at any given time, there will be an overwhelmingly aware people of how to keep a clean kitchen. The reason I suggested daily is so that once we are done doing it daily for a while, we can pass the torch to the kitchen users and build a bit of teamwork. </div>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:56 AM, Naomi Most <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:pnaomi@gmail.com" target="_blank">pnaomi@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Ron,<br>
<br>
Matt Senate co-founded sudo room and definitely is familiar with Noisebridge.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> we need to actually have a team of people that does pretty much nothing but clean and keep up the space.<br>
<br>
</div>I hope you mean that that's what it would /take/ to keep<br>
current-Noisebridge clean, and not what we're striving for.<br>
<br>
I hope that what we're striving for is a situation where better habits<br>
and perhaps some better-prioritized resources (e.g. decision about<br>
whether to keep the stove) tamp down the need for constant cleaning.<br>
<div class=""><br>
> It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need to drastically step up their game.<br>
> There should NEVER be dirty dishes ever. There should NEVER be rotting food.<br>
<br>
</div>I wouldn't go as far as to say "never be dirty dishes ever", but<br>
definitely the rotting food should never be an issue. If you have<br>
rotting food it means you have a situation where there isn't enough<br>
shared information state within the group (kitchen group or<br>
Noisebridge). I bet we can fix that.<br>
<br>
Btw... Let's all, together, work on using the word "we" when<br>
describing the shared use of resources that WE would like to better<br>
maintain. I'm guilty of contributing to the us-versus-them mentality<br>
here too. I'm going to try to stop that.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
--Naomi<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 2:51 AM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Every hackerspace is different since each has a different community. What<br>
> works for one doesn't necessarily work for all. Matt, you seem to be newish<br>
> to noisebridge. Please read over the past few years of meeting notes and<br>
> the discuss list.<br>
><br>
> Jenny you know noisebridge is a do ocracy. Which means if you see something<br>
> that needs doing you do it. The problem is If you see dirty dishes and they<br>
> always need doing, you won't get hacking done. It is a complicated problem<br>
> and requires a lot of thought to fix it. With a space the size of<br>
> noisebridge with as much foot traffic it gets (most likely at least 50+<br>
> people a day), we need to actually have a team of people that does pretty<br>
> much nothing but clean and keep up the space. This includes constant<br>
> organization, cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the bathrooms and teaching<br>
> people about noisebridge. Unfortunately we don't have enough people doing<br>
> and many people just make messes (in the kitchen, in the hack shelf area and<br>
> in the dirty shop). They have been constant sources of contention.<br>
> Removing the kitchen, as most people see it, is a simple way to drastically<br>
> reduce the amount of flies, rodents, mold and other gross things in the<br>
> space that are serious health issues.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Now here is what I propose, there are TONS of people who want the kitchen<br>
> apparently. It would appear that the people who want the kitchen need to<br>
> drastically step up their game. There should NEVER be dirty dishes ever.<br>
> There should NEVER be rotting food. There should be dates on things when we<br>
> put them anywhere. There should be people cleaning their hands more (every<br>
> time they touch themselves or their clothes during use of the kitchen).<br>
> They should be instructed on proper food handling techniques. Perhaps we<br>
> should put some printouts from <a href="http://www.foodsafety.gov/" target="_blank">http://www.foodsafety.gov/</a>. There is a<br>
> wealth of information. If we have other people who have worked in<br>
> restaurants, it would be really nice if we could arrange a weekly or daily<br>
> perhaps instruction session to educate people. Eventually the kitchen users<br>
> would be well versed in how to keep a kitchen clean and happy. Wanna come<br>
> and do that? Daily. For the next month or two. Maybe 3. I can do that<br>
> every day but Friday/Saturday for a little while since I have some<br>
> birthday's to go to and friends in town. Got time?<br>
><br>
> On Apr 14, 2014 11:32 PM, "Jenny Ryan" <<a href="mailto:tunabananas@gmail.com">tunabananas@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<br>
>> Hash: SHA1<br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Command_Pattern" target="_blank">http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Command_Pattern</a><br>
>><br>
>> ;)<br>
>><br>
>> On Mon 14 Apr 2014 10:34:21 PM PDT, Naomi Most wrote:<br>
>> > Are you encouraging us to update the page with better information, Matt?<br>
>> > :)<br>
>> ><br>
>> > --Naomi<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:22 AM, Matthew Senate <<a href="mailto:mattsenate@gmail.com">mattsenate@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > wrote:<br>
>> >> <a href="http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Kitchen_Pattern" target="_blank">http://hackerspaces.org/wiki/The_Kitchen_Pattern</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM, Gregory Dillon<br>
>> >> <<a href="mailto:gregorydillon@gmail.com">gregorydillon@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> I'm in group (5) but I've also lost hope that a talking group or hand<br>
>> >>> washing lessons will fix the problem.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> a deadline is good.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:50 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> That. But having proper cleaning is important.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:41 PM, Jessica Ross<br>
>> >>>> <<a href="mailto:jessica.r.ross@gmail.com">jessica.r.ross@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:38 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden<br>
>> >>>>> <<a href="mailto:jeffreyatw@gmail.com">jeffreyatw@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> And then...?<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:38 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>>>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> That is what I am saying. Let's make them aware of the work<br>
>> >>>>>>> involved<br>
>> >>>>>>> to do it properly and see if they still want it.<br>
>> >>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>> On Apr 14, 2014 4:35 PM, "Adrian Chadd" <<a href="mailto:adrian.chadd@gmail.com">adrian.chadd@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> >>>>>>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> On 14 April 2014 16:32, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>>>>>>> Part of kitchen cleaning is doing it daily. And having a<br>
>> >>>>>>>>> checklist. That<br>
>> >>>>>>>>> is how restaurants do it. Sometimes multiple times daily.<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> Sure, but they also fire you if you don't do it.<br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>>>> -a<br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>>> --<br>
>> >>>>> Jessica R. Ross<br>
>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:jessica.r.ross@gmail.com">jessica.r.ross@gmail.com</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> --<br>
>> >>>> Ronald Cotoni<br>
>> >>>> Systems Engineer<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> --<br>
>> >>> Let's stay in touch. Greg<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> - --<br>
>> Jenny<br>
>> <a href="http://jennyryan.net" target="_blank">http://jennyryan.net</a><br>
>> <a href="http://sudomesh.org" target="_blank">http://sudomesh.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://thevirtualcampfire.org" target="_blank">http://thevirtualcampfire.org</a><br>
>> <a href="http://technomadic.tumblr.com" target="_blank">http://technomadic.tumblr.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> `~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
>> "Technology is the campfire around which we tell our stories."<br>
>> - -Laurie Anderson<br>
>><br>
>> "Storytelling reveals meaning without committing the error of defining<br>
>> it."<br>
>> -Hannah Arendt<br>
>><br>
>> "To define is to kill. To suggest is to create."<br>
>> - -Stéphane Mallarmé<br>
>> ~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`~`<br>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.14 (GNU/Linux)<br>
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - <a href="http://www.enigmail.net/" target="_blank">http://www.enigmail.net/</a><br>
>><br>
>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTTNJYAAoJEHTWWpBUSeDhsa0IAJjtWsT0IwL27uvjUwTbHapt<br>
>> pEiDnkL2L1jla4M7OEz/hYiDk0JyXSFcbOTKheP6WmZY3AQeo7eTlYD22ymluv/X<br>
>> QzmmdbhiOlKDqZT9sgjKgqCHv+AdBkWnTeDP/CKbbFuSsIwTuX5zlEGyuizzfaRo<br>
>> fxerJ3OOk3B1uanrjxFIhAODt1tG30/snivLEVPD59D64E6Dj/Tflan4qVIi9i5y<br>
>> 9ud1ouV+SIQhEnh3IsU5br4kl6EqcF0Ypcb/LijT/emC48OYcduf8jNxJemBA6K3<br>
>> Yl5Ydux96V44gMugalUN230fe0a8eSr+6wzeDvBgTStI6Dojxd/yBW59xFI9lT8=<br>
>> =bFj8<br>
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">--<br>
Naomi Theora Most<br>
<a href="mailto:naomi@nthmost.com">naomi@nthmost.com</a><br>
<a href="tel:%2B1-415-728-7490" value="+14157287490">+1-415-728-7490</a><br>
<br>
skype: nthmost<br>
<br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/nthmost" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/nthmost</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br>Ronald Cotoni<div>Systems Engineer</div>
</div>