<p dir="ltr">You need to use the link at the bottom of the email.</p>
<p dir="ltr"><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 18 May 2015 18:31, "Barry Fruitman" <<a href="mailto:barry@fruitman.me">barry@fruitman.me</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Remove</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 18, 2015 5:00 AM, <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."<br>
<br>Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91, Issue 4 (Mohamed Shakir)<br>
2. Fedora on the 3d printer (Torrie Fischer)<br>
3. Always be creating!! (Romy@snowyla)<br>
4. More destress drawings (Romy@snowyla)<br>
5. The windows are clean! It's excellent (Patrick O'Doherty)<br>
6. Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge (Patrick O'Doherty)<br>
7. CCCamp 2015, are you going? Camping with Noiseburg? (Rubin Abdi)<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Mohamed Shakir <<a href="mailto:mo.shakirma@gmail.com" target="_blank">mo.shakirma@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:46 +0000<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Noisebridge-discuss Digest, Vol 91, Issue 4<br>is anyone planing to come today before noon? the doors are locked.<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 05:00 <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Send Noisebridge-discuss mailing list submissions to<br>
<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-request@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss-owner@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss-owner@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of Noisebridge-discuss digest..."<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Javascript, Spanish Workshop, Network with Mexico City<br>
hackerspace (Eric Hulburd)<br>
2. Re: SF Linux Fest (Ryan Rix)<br>
3. HP Printer (Torrie Fischer)<br>
4. Re: HP Printer (Teapot)<br>
5. 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Torrie Fischer)<br>
6. Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Olivier Laleu)<br>
7. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)<br>
8. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)<br>
9. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (kjs)<br>
10. Re: Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise (Henner Zeller)<br>
11. Re: 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient (Josh Juran)<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Eric Hulburd <<a href="mailto:ehulburd@gmail.com" target="_blank">ehulburd@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:09:30 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Javascript, Spanish Workshop, Network with Mexico City hackerspace<br><div dir="ltr">Hi,<div><br></div><div>I'm visiting San Francisco this month and I'm working out of Noisebridge (originally from SF).</div><div><br></div><div>I've been living in Mexico City and have been doing some workshops at a hackerspace down there - <a href="http://ranchoelectronico.org/" target="_blank">Rancho Electrico</a>. </div><div><br></div><div>It would be rad to create some connections between the spaces. If anyone is interested in:</div><div><ul><li>helping me with the javascript workshops by leading the workshops online w/ google hangout, skype or whatever you prefer (there's definitely a desire to learn to code, availability of skilled programmers willing to spend time teaching is a limitation),</li><li>want to learn spanish and would be interested in organizing a spanish language workshop,</li><li>are interested in what role internet and tech freedom can play in fighting corruption on both sides of the border</li></ul>contact me.<br></div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Eric Hulburd</div><div><br><a href="http://www.oroeco.com/" target="_blank">Oroeco.com</a></div><div>Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/oyecalifornia" target="_blank">@oyecalifornia</a></div><div>Ciudad de M<span style="font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">éxico</span></div></div></div></div></div>
</div></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Ryan Rix <ryan@whatthefuck.computer><br>To: Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2015 18:28:52 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] SF Linux Fest<br>Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> writes:<br>
> Hei, noisebridge :3<br>
><br>
> I'm up here at Linux Fest Northwest where I've had my passion for free<br>
> software reinvigorated and renewed.<br>
><br>
> Its inspired me to bring about something like LFNW or even LibrePlanet in SF<br>
> by starting it at Noisebridge. The problem though is that I've been,<br>
> unfortunately, completely burnt out of free software over the last few years.<br>
> So I'm a bit out of the loop as to what local activities might already be<br>
> happening.<br>
><br>
> Anyone got pointers of where I should look for an existing community in the<br>
> bay area outside of Noisebridge?<br>
<br>
We're bootstrapping an Emacs Conference in SF right now, would be great<br>
to pool resources on these two things, given their overlap.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://emacsconf.github.io/emacsconf2015/" target="_blank">http://emacsconf.github.io/emacsconf2015/</a><br>
<br>
r<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 15:13:25 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer<br>I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has more or<br>
less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother printer<br>
from Rubin.<br>
<br>
No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how to use one<br>
of them.<br>
<br>
Unless there are objections, of course.<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Teapot <<a href="mailto:hi@asmallteapot.com" target="_blank">hi@asmallteapot.com</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 16:25:05 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] HP Printer<br>I can't think of any reason we'd need two roughly-equivalent printers in the space. Long live the Butt Brother.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
> On May 2, 2015, at 15:13, Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> I'm reclaiming the HP printer I brought in a long while ago. It has more or<br>
> less been totally supplanted by the nice butt-connected black brother printer<br>
> from Rubin.<br>
><br>
> No sense in keeping two printers around if nobody can figure out how to use one<br>
> of them.<br>
><br>
> Unless there are objections, of course.<br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 18:30:31 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient<br>Yo, noisebridge.<br>
<br>
I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If you'd like<br>
to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit me up<br>
with an email :)<br>
<br>
The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of his own<br>
free will. I'm serious. He's not actually locked up in the basement and being<br>
tortured by watching the oncoming onslaught of totalitarianism brought upon us<br>
all by the state. It'll be fun. He's safe down there, I'm sure. Come, bring<br>
your friends <3<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Olivier Laleu <<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 03 May 2015 02:02:36 +0000<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise<br>Hi noisebridge,<br>
<br>
Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings<br>
and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format<br>
dates in Golang and having launched some tests.<br>
<br>
Proposition:<br>
1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non<br>
fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code<br>
here:<br>
<a href="https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go" target="_blank">https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go</a><br>
<br>
Before<br>
member - 24h a day<br>
fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59<br>
user - from 11 to 21h59<br>
<br>
After<br>
member - 24h a day<br>
fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59<br>
user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59<br>
<br>
2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could<br>
make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give<br>
help with databases.<br>
<br>
Question:<br>
1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is<br>
there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you<br>
think it would be unsecured.<br>
<br>
2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today<br>
from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of<br>
the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via<br>
javascript. I can help on it.<br>
<br>
Last thoughts:<br>
For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to<br>
the sunrise, is, so cool!<br>
For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary<br>
bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!<br>
<br>
Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or<br>
operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.<br>
<br>
Olivier<br>
'o o,<br>
'o o,<br>
'o o'<br>
'o o'<br>
'o ..ooo, o'<br>
o''~ ~'o o'<br>
o' ,o'^'o- ''o<br>
o' 'o' 'o- o<br>
o-o-o-o-o-o ;o o' 'o -o-o-o-o-o-o<br>
:o, 'o- ,o o' ,o<br>
'o, '** ,d' ,o<br>
'o,..,,d' ,o'<br>
o' ,o' o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
kjs:<br>
> jarrod hicks:<br>
>> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -<br>
>> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."<br>
>><br>
>> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.<br>
>> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say<br>
>> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there<br>
>> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.<br>
><br>
> Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own this,<br>
> but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,<br>
> iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely in<br>
> the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus<br>
> of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness' and<br>
> trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am<br>
> vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer<br>
> to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we<br>
>> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users<br>
>> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater<br>
>> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.<br>
>> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the<br>
>> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong<br>
>> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the<br>
>> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they<br>
>> are not.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of<br>
> early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,<br>
> wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this<br>
> proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to<br>
> support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the<br>
> current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where<br>
> only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed both<br>
> removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and<br>
> bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going out<br>
> of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can<br>
> find a middle way where all are content.<br>
><br>
> -Kevin<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of people who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more critical systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued a key to folks on the 86'ed list.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:<br>
>>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to<br>
>>>> Noisebridge?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I do. Vehemently.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob<br>
>>>> 2.0, and<br>
>>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving<br>
>>>> identified<br>
>>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the<br>
>>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the state<br>
>>>> of<br>
>>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as. My<br>
>>>> entries<br>
>>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>". You'd be hard<br>
>>>> pressed<br>
>>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal" name.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize<br>
>>>> themselves<br>
>>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for<br>
>>>> shitting<br>
>>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the<br>
>>>> woodshop<br>
>>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and<br>
>>>> shits in<br>
>>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that they<br>
>>>> don't<br>
>>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who did<br>
>>>> it and<br>
>>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.<br>
>>>> Don't let<br>
>>>> her back in."?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical<br>
>>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate<br>
>>>> someone's<br>
>>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it<br>
>>>> completely<br>
>>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a<br>
>>>> member to<br>
>>>> have 24/7 access to the door.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm pretty<br>
>>>> much a<br>
>>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know<br>
>>>> someone and<br>
>>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7<br>
>>>> access.<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>><br>To: Olivier Laleu <<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>><br>Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 19:09:42 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise<br><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi noisebridge,<br>
<br>
Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings<br>
and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with format<br>
dates in Golang and having launched some tests.<br>
<br>
Proposition:<br>
1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non<br>
fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my code<br>
here:<br>
<a href="https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go" target="_blank">https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go</a><br>
<br>
Before<br>
member - 24h a day<br>
fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59<br>
user - from 11 to 21h59<br>
<br>
After<br>
member - 24h a day<br>
fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59<br>
user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item has not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for</div><div>now until we have come to a conclusion.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors could<br>
make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could give<br>
help with databases.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he meant that</div><div>anybody can create a token.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Question:<br>
1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is<br>
there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you<br>
think it would be unsecured.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time, this might</div><div>be pretty late.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened today<br>
from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code of<br>
the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via<br>
javascript. I can help on it.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is open'</div><div>indicator somewhere.</div><div>(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Last thoughts:<br>
For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related to<br>
the sunrise, is, so cool!<br>
For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary<br>
bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.</div><div>Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just makes it</div><div>harder to reason when the space is open.)</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or<br>
operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a web interface.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
Olivier<br>
'o o,<br>
'o o,<br>
'o o'<br>
'o o'<br>
'o ..ooo, o'<br>
o''~ ~'o o'<br>
o' ,o'^'o- ''o<br>
o' 'o' 'o- o<br>
o-o-o-o-o-o ;o o' 'o -o-o-o-o-o-o<br>
:o, 'o- ,o o' ,o<br>
'o, '** ,d' ,o<br>
'o,..,,d' ,o'<br>
o' ,o' o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
o' 'o<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
kjs:<br>
<div><div>> jarrod hicks:<br>
>> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one perk -<br>
>> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."<br>
>><br>
>> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks now.<br>
>> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already say<br>
>> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with there<br>
>> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.<br>
><br>
> Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own this,<br>
> but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,<br>
> iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling entirely in<br>
> the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires consensus<br>
> of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed 'responsibleness' and<br>
> trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I am<br>
> vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I prefer<br>
> to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress we<br>
>> are making improving the space, to open up special access for users<br>
>> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a greater<br>
>> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular hours.<br>
>> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in the<br>
>> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a strong<br>
>> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the<br>
>> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if they<br>
>> are not.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><br>
> During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of<br>
> early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,<br>
> wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for this<br>
> proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to<br>
> support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In the<br>
> current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage, where<br>
> only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed both<br>
> removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and<br>
> bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or going out<br>
> of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we can<br>
> find a middle way where all are content.<br>
><br>
> -Kevin<br>
><br>
>><br>
>> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of people who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more critical systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued a key to folks on the 86'ed list.<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:<br>
>>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to<br>
>>>> Noisebridge?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I do. Vehemently.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid, Rob<br>
>>>> 2.0, and<br>
>>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with giving<br>
>>>> identified<br>
>>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that the<br>
>>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the state<br>
>>>> of<br>
>>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify as. My<br>
>>>> entries<br>
>>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>". You'd be hard<br>
>>>> pressed<br>
>>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal" name.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they deanonymize<br>
>>>> themselves<br>
>>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable for<br>
>>>> shitting<br>
>>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in the<br>
>>>> woodshop<br>
>>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in and<br>
>>>> shits in<br>
>>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that they<br>
>>>> don't<br>
>>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know who did<br>
>>>> it and<br>
>>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the woodshop.<br>
>>>> Don't let<br>
>>>> her back in."?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a technical<br>
>>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically validate<br>
>>>> someone's<br>
>>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it<br>
>>>> completely<br>
>>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to be a<br>
>>>> member to<br>
>>>> have 24/7 access to the door.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm pretty<br>
>>>> much a<br>
>>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to know<br>
>>>> someone and<br>
>>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having 24/7<br>
>>>> access.<br>
>>><br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>><br>To: kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>>, NoiseBridge Discuss <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 22:09:27 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise<br><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br>
<br>
On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Hi noisebridge,<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday meetings<br>
>> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with<br>
>format<br>
>> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.<br>
>><br>
>> Proposition:<br>
>> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's (non<br>
>> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check my<br>
>code<br>
>> here:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
><a href="https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go" target="_blank">https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go</a><br>
>><br>
>> Before<br>
>> member - 24h a day<br>
>> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59<br>
>> user - from 11 to 21h59<br>
>><br>
>> After<br>
>> member - 24h a day<br>
>> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59<br>
>> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59<br>
>><br>
><br>
>Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last item<br>
>has<br>
>not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for<br>
>now until we have come to a conclusion.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div>I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c consensus.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the #security-wg channel on slack.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the lack of a forum brings docracy to halt.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>the forum _is_ slack.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?<br>
<div><div><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors<br>
>could<br>
>> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could<br>
>give<br>
>> help with databases.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think he<br>
>meant<br>
>that<br>
>anybody can create a token.<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Question:<br>
>> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user. Is<br>
>> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if you<br>
>> think it would be unsecured.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in winter-time,<br>
>this<br>
>might<br>
>be pretty late.<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened<br>
>today<br>
>> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the code<br>
>of<br>
>> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via<br>
>> javascript. I can help on it.<br>
><br>
><br>
>Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is<br>
>open'<br>
>indicator somewhere.<br>
>(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Last thoughts:<br>
>> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid related<br>
>to<br>
>> the sunrise, is, so cool!<br>
>> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary<br>
>> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!<br>
>><br>
><br>
>(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.<br>
>Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just<br>
>makes<br>
>it<br>
>harder to reason when the space is open.)<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh or<br>
>> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.<br>
>><br>
><br>
>I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a<br>
>web<br>
>interface.<br>
><br>
><br>
>><br>
>> Olivier<br>
>> 'o o,<br>
>> 'o o,<br>
>> 'o o'<br>
>> 'o o'<br>
>> 'o ..ooo, o'<br>
>> o''~ ~'o o'<br>
>> o' ,o'^'o- ''o<br>
>> o' 'o' 'o- o<br>
>> o-o-o-o-o-o ;o o' 'o -o-o-o-o-o-o<br>
>> :o, 'o- ,o o' ,o<br>
>> 'o, '** ,d' ,o<br>
>> 'o,..,,d' ,o'<br>
>> o' ,o' o<br>
>> o' 'o<br>
>> o' 'o<br>
>> o' 'o<br>
>> o' 'o<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> kjs:<br>
>> > jarrod hicks:<br>
>> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one<br>
>perk -<br>
>> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two perks<br>
>now.<br>
>> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I already<br>
>say<br>
>> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with<br>
>there<br>
>> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to own<br>
>this,<br>
>> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving tours,<br>
>> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling<br>
>entirely in<br>
>> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires<br>
>consensus<br>
>> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed<br>
>'responsibleness' and<br>
>> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the day. I<br>
>am<br>
>> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I<br>
>prefer<br>
>> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.<br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the progress<br>
>we<br>
>> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for<br>
>users<br>
>> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a<br>
>greater<br>
>> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular<br>
>hours.<br>
>> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in<br>
>the<br>
>> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a<br>
>strong<br>
>> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of the<br>
>> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even if<br>
>they<br>
>> >> are not.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number of<br>
>> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our community,<br>
>> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation for<br>
>this<br>
>> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door to<br>
>> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension. In<br>
>the<br>
>> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,<br>
>where<br>
>> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I proposed<br>
>both<br>
>> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface and<br>
>> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or<br>
>going out<br>
>> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that we<br>
>can<br>
>> > find a middle way where all are content.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > -Kevin<br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of<br>
>people<br>
>> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more<br>
>critical<br>
>> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has issued<br>
>a key<br>
>> to folks on the 86'ed list.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:<br>
>> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to<br>
>> >>>> Noisebridge?<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> I do. Vehemently.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey, Sid,<br>
>Rob<br>
>> >>>> 2.0, and<br>
>> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with<br>
>giving<br>
>> >>>> identified<br>
>> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement that<br>
>the<br>
>> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as the<br>
>state<br>
>> >>>> of<br>
>> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to identify<br>
>as. My<br>
>> >>>> entries<br>
>> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>". You'd<br>
>be<br>
>> hard<br>
>> >>>> pressed<br>
>> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my "legal"<br>
>name.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they<br>
>deanonymize<br>
>> >>>> themselves<br>
>> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held accountable<br>
>for<br>
>> >>>> shitting<br>
>> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting in<br>
>the<br>
>> >>>> woodshop<br>
>> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes in<br>
>and<br>
>> >>>> shits in<br>
>> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope that<br>
>they<br>
>> >>>> don't<br>
>> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would know<br>
>who<br>
>> did<br>
>> >>>> it and<br>
>> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the<br>
>woodshop.<br>
>> >>>> Don't let<br>
>> >>>> her back in."?<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a<br>
>technical<br>
>> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically<br>
>validate<br>
>> >>>> someone's<br>
>> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters, it<br>
>> >>>> completely<br>
>> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need to<br>
>be a<br>
>> >>>> member to<br>
>> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it. I'm<br>
>pretty<br>
>> >>>> much a<br>
>> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to<br>
>know<br>
>> >>>> someone and<br>
>> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having<br>
>24/7<br>
>> >>>> access.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
</div></div>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<div><div>><br>
>_______________________________________________<br>
>Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>><br>To: Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>>, NoiseBridge Discuss <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sat, 02 May 2015 23:39:58 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise<br><br>
<br>
On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>><br>
>wrote:<br>
>> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>><br>
>wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Hi noisebridge,<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday<br>
>meetings<br>
>> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with<br>
>> >format<br>
>> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Proposition:<br>
>> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's<br>
>(non<br>
>> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check<br>
>my<br>
>> >code<br>
>> >> here:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
><a href="https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go" target="_blank">https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Before<br>
>> >> member - 24h a day<br>
>> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59<br>
>> >> user - from 11 to 21h59<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> After<br>
>> >> member - 24h a day<br>
>> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59<br>
>> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last<br>
>item<br>
>> >has<br>
>> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for<br>
>> >now until we have come to a conclusion.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c<br>
>consensus.<br>
><br>
><br>
>the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the<br>
>#security-wg channel on slack.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the<br>
>lack<br>
>> of a forum brings docracy to halt.<br>
><br>
><br>
>the forum _is_ slack.<br>
><br>
<br>
Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses. Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data transmitted. Of course, Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.<br>
<br>
The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.<br>
<br>
I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night, and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward with some implementation.<br>
<br>
><br>
>> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?<br>
>><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors<br>
>> >could<br>
>> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could<br>
>> >give<br>
>> >> help with databases.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think<br>
>he<br>
>> >meant<br>
>> >that<br>
>> >anybody can create a token.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Question:<br>
>> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.<br>
>Is<br>
>> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if<br>
>you<br>
>> >> think it would be unsecured.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in<br>
>winter-time,<br>
>> >this<br>
>> >might<br>
>> >be pretty late.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened<br>
>> >today<br>
>> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the<br>
>code<br>
>> >of<br>
>> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via<br>
>> >> javascript. I can help on it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is<br>
>> >open'<br>
>> >indicator somewhere.<br>
>> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Last thoughts:<br>
>> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid<br>
>related<br>
>> >to<br>
>> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!<br>
>> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary<br>
>> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.<br>
>> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just<br>
>> >makes<br>
>> >it<br>
>> >harder to reason when the space is open.)<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh<br>
>or<br>
>> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a<br>
>> >web<br>
>> >interface.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Olivier<br>
>> >> 'o o,<br>
>> >> 'o o,<br>
>> >> 'o o'<br>
>> >> 'o o'<br>
>> >> 'o ..ooo, o'<br>
>> >> o''~ ~'o o'<br>
>> >> o' ,o'^'o- ''o<br>
>> >> o' 'o' 'o- o<br>
>> >> o-o-o-o-o-o ;o o' 'o -o-o-o-o-o-o<br>
>> >> :o, 'o- ,o o' ,o<br>
>> >> 'o, '** ,d' ,o<br>
>> >> 'o,..,,d' ,o'<br>
>> >> o' ,o' o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> kjs:<br>
>> >> > jarrod hicks:<br>
>> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one<br>
>> >perk -<br>
>> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."<br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two<br>
>perks<br>
>> >now.<br>
>> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I<br>
>already<br>
>> >say<br>
>> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with<br>
>> >there<br>
>> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to<br>
>own<br>
>> >this,<br>
>> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving<br>
>tours,<br>
>> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling<br>
>> >entirely in<br>
>> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires<br>
>> >consensus<br>
>> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed<br>
>> >'responsibleness' and<br>
>> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the<br>
>day. I<br>
>> >am<br>
>> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I<br>
>> >prefer<br>
>> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the<br>
>progress<br>
>> >we<br>
>> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for<br>
>> >users<br>
>> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a<br>
>> >greater<br>
>> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular<br>
>> >hours.<br>
>> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a<br>
>> >strong<br>
>> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of<br>
>the<br>
>> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even<br>
>if<br>
>> >they<br>
>> >> >> are not.<br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number<br>
>of<br>
>> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our<br>
>community,<br>
>> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation<br>
>for<br>
>> >this<br>
>> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door<br>
>to<br>
>> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.<br>
>In<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,<br>
>> >where<br>
>> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I<br>
>proposed<br>
>> >both<br>
>> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface<br>
>and<br>
>> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or<br>
>> >going out<br>
>> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that<br>
>we<br>
>> >can<br>
>> >> > find a middle way where all are content.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > -Kevin<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of<br>
>> >people<br>
>> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more<br>
>> >critical<br>
>> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has<br>
>issued<br>
>> >a key<br>
>> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.<br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:<br>
>> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to<br>
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge?<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,<br>
>Sid,<br>
>> >Rob<br>
>> >> >>>> 2.0, and<br>
>> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with<br>
>> >giving<br>
>> >> >>>> identified<br>
>> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement<br>
>that<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as<br>
>the<br>
>> >state<br>
>> >> >>>> of<br>
>> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to<br>
>identify<br>
>> >as. My<br>
>> >> >>>> entries<br>
>> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>".<br>
>You'd<br>
>> >be<br>
>> >> hard<br>
>> >> >>>> pressed<br>
>> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my<br>
>"legal"<br>
>> >name.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they<br>
>> >deanonymize<br>
>> >> >>>> themselves<br>
>> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held<br>
>accountable<br>
>> >for<br>
>> >> >>>> shitting<br>
>> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting<br>
>in<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >>>> woodshop<br>
>> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes<br>
>in<br>
>> >and<br>
>> >> >>>> shits in<br>
>> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope<br>
>that<br>
>> >they<br>
>> >> >>>> don't<br>
>> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would<br>
>know<br>
>> >who<br>
>> >> did<br>
>> >> >>>> it and<br>
>> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the<br>
>> >woodshop.<br>
>> >> >>>> Don't let<br>
>> >> >>>> her back in."?<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a<br>
>> >technical<br>
>> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically<br>
>> >validate<br>
>> >> >>>> someone's<br>
>> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,<br>
>it<br>
>> >> >>>> completely<br>
>> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need<br>
>to<br>
>> >be a<br>
>> >> >>>> member to<br>
>> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.<br>
>I'm<br>
>> >pretty<br>
>> >> >>>> much a<br>
>> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to<br>
>> >know<br>
>> >> >>>> someone and<br>
>> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having<br>
>> >24/7<br>
>> >> >>>> access.<br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> >>><br>
><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> >><br>
><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> >_______________________________________________<br>
>> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> ><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> ><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>><br>To: kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>><br>Cc: NoiseBridge Discuss <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Date: Sat, 2 May 2015 23:51:06 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] Proposal to open Noisebridge at sunrise<br><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 2 May 2015 at 23:39, kjs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><br>
<br>
On May 2, 2015 10:09:27 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>On 2 May 2015 at 22:04, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On May 2, 2015 7:09:42 PM PDT, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org" target="_blank">h.zeller@acm.org</a>><br>
>wrote:<br>
>> >On 2 May 2015 at 19:02, Olivier Laleu <<a href="mailto:olivier.laleu@gmail.com" target="_blank">olivier.laleu@gmail.com</a>><br>
>wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Hi noisebridge,<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Thanks for having discussed the proposal during last Tuesday<br>
>meetings<br>
>> >> and on NB-discuss. Big thanks to Kevin for having helped me with<br>
>> >format<br>
>> >> dates in Golang and having launched some tests.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Proposition:<br>
>> >> 1 --- I did a pull-request to Henner and Kevin to have a user's<br>
>(non<br>
>> >> fulltime) token working 3 hours after the sunrise. You can check<br>
>my<br>
>> >code<br>
>> >> here:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
><a href="https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go" target="_blank">https://github.com/lol84/rfid-access-control/blob/master/software/earl/user.go</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Before<br>
>> >> member - 24h a day<br>
>> >> fullTimeUser - from 7 to 23h59<br>
>> >> user - from 11 to 21h59<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> After<br>
>> >> member - 24h a day<br>
>> >> fullTimeUser - from sunrise to 23h59<br>
>> >> user - from (sunrise + 3 hours) to 21h59<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Unless I missed something, I think the discussion about this last<br>
>item<br>
>> >has<br>
>> >not settled yet. Leave it at 11:00 for<br>
>> >now until we have come to a conclusion.<br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>> I feel the problem here is the lack of a forum for lower case c<br>
>consensus.<br>
><br>
><br>
>the forum to quickly come to a lower case consensus would be the<br>
>#security-wg channel on slack.<br>
><br>
><br>
>> I am also confused on the outcome of this thread. I further feel the<br>
>lack<br>
>> of a forum brings docracy to halt.<br>
><br>
><br>
>the forum _is_ slack.<br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div>Slack is a walled garden with an echo chamber effect. The self reinforcing nature of the beast is very conducive to clique consenses. Everyone is not on Slack, for good reason. Accounts are limited, access is guarded, we do not host the server, thus do not have control of the data transmitted. Of course, Slack users' accounts were also once compromised.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree, slack has its problems, mostly due to its non-open nature.</div><div>However, I would't say it is an echo chamber, just a way to quickly get consensus because it is essentially chat.</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
The alternatives are Tuesday meetings, a working group meeting and discuss. This proposal was discussed at three meetings. My impression from the meetings was largely positive. I was surprised by the many concerns raised on this thread. Thank you all for the feedback.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I have not been in the meetings, and the transcripts don't seem to convey the details.</div><div>The proposal to open the fulltimeuserness is without trouble from people on this thread.</div><div>But opening the gates for random people early in the morning has obviously its problems and the discussion is not settled (and I can't imagine that it was settled in the meeting).</div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
I suggest we convene the security working group, perhaps Monday night, and empower the group to sort through the concerns raised and move forward with some implementation.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Sounds good. </div><div><br></div><div>-h</div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div><br>
><br>
>> Can someone please elaborate on how this is supposed to work?<br>
>><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 2 --- The idea of Patrick to have an interface from where visitors<br>
>> >could<br>
>> >> make their own rfid card sounds doocratically cool. Maybe I could<br>
>> >give<br>
>> >> help with databases.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >I have not understood Patricks original comment, but I don't think<br>
>he<br>
>> >meant<br>
>> >that<br>
>> >anybody can create a token.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Question:<br>
>> >> 1 --- sunrise + 3 hours means a space opened at 9:32 for a user.<br>
>Is<br>
>> >> there a consensus on it? We still can write sunrise + 4 hours if<br>
>you<br>
>> >> think it would be unsecured.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Leave that at 11 for now until we have consensus. Also in<br>
>winter-time,<br>
>> >this<br>
>> >might<br>
>> >be pretty late.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> 2 --- What about writing on the wiki page "Noisebridge is opened<br>
>> >today<br>
>> >> from 9:32 to 22:00", via a javascript function. We can grab the<br>
>code<br>
>> >of<br>
>> >> the NOAA sunrise hour (the same that is given by astrotime) via<br>
>> >> javascript. I can help on it.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >Check with Patrick and Torrie, I think they were working on some 'is<br>
>> >open'<br>
>> >indicator somewhere.<br>
>> >(also 'open' in your case means 'open with RFID' or something)<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Last thoughts:<br>
>> >> For newcomers, to know they can enter noisebridge via an rfid<br>
>related<br>
>> >to<br>
>> >> the sunrise, is, so cool!<br>
>> >> For hackers, to know that the space do not depends from arbitrary<br>
>> >> bi-annual time changes sounds cool too!<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >(At least it is a neat thing from the hack-perspective.<br>
>> >Most peoples schedule is actually not related to sunrise, so it just<br>
>> >makes<br>
>> >it<br>
>> >harder to reason when the space is open.)<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Henner, Kevin, Patrick,...let me know when you would like to ssh<br>
>or<br>
>> >> operate Earl manually. I'm really interested seeing it working.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> >I'll meet with Kevin on Monday evening and chat about implementing a<br>
>> >web<br>
>> >interface.<br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Olivier<br>
>> >> 'o o,<br>
>> >> 'o o,<br>
>> >> 'o o'<br>
>> >> 'o o'<br>
>> >> 'o ..ooo, o'<br>
>> >> o''~ ~'o o'<br>
>> >> o' ,o'^'o- ''o<br>
>> >> o' 'o' 'o- o<br>
>> >> o-o-o-o-o-o ;o o' 'o -o-o-o-o-o-o<br>
>> >> :o, 'o- ,o o' ,o<br>
>> >> 'o, '** ,d' ,o<br>
>> >> 'o,..,,d' ,o'<br>
>> >> o' ,o' o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >> o' 'o<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> kjs:<br>
>> >> > jarrod hicks:<br>
>> >> >> I agree with Harry that "the statement 'Membership has only one<br>
>> >perk -<br>
>> >> >> Block rights for concensus.' a lie."<br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> I think we should just own the fact that Membership has two<br>
>perks<br>
>> >now.<br>
>> >> >> 1. Full particpation in consensus 2. After hours access. I<br>
>already<br>
>> >say<br>
>> >> >> essentially this when I give tours nowadays. I'm also fine with<br>
>> >there<br>
>> >> >> being some grey 'case by case basis' area here.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Thanks for sharing Jarrod. I think it's great that you want to<br>
>own<br>
>> >this,<br>
>> >> > but I do not. I am generally the person at meetings, giving<br>
>tours,<br>
>> >> > iterating over my version of membership and access, dwelling<br>
>> >entirely in<br>
>> >> > the gray area of trust heuristics. Becoming a Member requires<br>
>> >consensus<br>
>> >> > of the group, thus demonstrates to me the observed<br>
>> >'responsibleness' and<br>
>> >> > trustworthiness needed to curate Noisebridge 24 hours of the<br>
>day. I<br>
>> >am<br>
>> >> > vary wary of advertising this as a perk of membership. Rather, I<br>
>> >prefer<br>
>> >> > to share and consider the qualities needed, not the title.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> I don't think we should go out of our way, and risk the<br>
>progress<br>
>> >we<br>
>> >> >> are making improving the space, to open up special access for<br>
>> >users<br>
>> >> >> who want to use Noisebridge but are not interested in being a<br>
>> >greater<br>
>> >> >> part of our community, they are already welcome during regular<br>
>> >hours.<br>
>> >> >> (Harry, I am not referring to you. I think you are excellent in<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >> space.) Not necessarily Membership status, but at least with a<br>
>> >strong<br>
>> >> >> track record of excellence, trust worthiness, and support of<br>
>the<br>
>> >> >> space. The sort of person who is assumed to be a member, even<br>
>if<br>
>> >they<br>
>> >> >> are not.<br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > During discussion of this topic at meetings, there were a number<br>
>of<br>
>> >> > early birds expressing interest in being a part of our<br>
>community,<br>
>> >> > wanting to come and hack before 11:00. That was one motivation<br>
>for<br>
>> >this<br>
>> >> > proposal. Broadly, I believe improving the interface at the door<br>
>to<br>
>> >> > support adding fulltimeusers will help to reduce this tension.<br>
>In<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> > current state there's an asymmetry and bottleneck at this stage,<br>
>> >where<br>
>> >> > only a handful of folks can add fulltimeusers. Hence why I<br>
>proposed<br>
>> >both<br>
>> >> > removing the bottleneck by creating a more accessible interface<br>
>and<br>
>> >> > bumping up user hours. I never saw this as risking progress or<br>
>> >going out<br>
>> >> > of our way, though I hear and respect that many do. I hope that<br>
>we<br>
>> >can<br>
>> >> > find a middle way where all are content.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > -Kevin<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> >> On Thu, Apr 30, 2015 at 3:05 PM, kjs <<a href="mailto:bfb@riseup.net" target="_blank">bfb@riseup.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> >>> Who gave sid, harvey, rob 2.0, etc. access tokens? The pool of<br>
>> >people<br>
>> >> who are able to create access tokens is small. I argue that more<br>
>> >critical<br>
>> >> systems fall apart in a world where we assume that someone has<br>
>issued<br>
>> >a key<br>
>> >> to folks on the 86'ed list.<br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>> On April 30, 2015 2:49:20 PM PDT, Torrie Fischer <<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >> >>>> On Thursday, April 30, 2015 01:53:19 PM Harry Moreno wrote:<br>
>> >> >>>>> Anyone object to allowing anonymous users early access to<br>
>> >> >>>> Noisebridge?<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> I do. Vehemently.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> The set of anonymous users includes such people as Harvey,<br>
>Sid,<br>
>> >Rob<br>
>> >> >>>> 2.0, and<br>
>> >> >>>> other fun personalities from the 86 page. I'd be cool with<br>
>> >giving<br>
>> >> >>>> identified<br>
>> >> >>>> people early access to Noisebridge. It isn't a requirement<br>
>that<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >>>> information in the database be one's True And Legal Name (as<br>
>the<br>
>> >state<br>
>> >> >>>> of<br>
>> >> >>>> California calls it), but merely the nym one wishes to<br>
>identify<br>
>> >as. My<br>
>> >> >>>> entries<br>
>> >> >>>> in there say "tdfischer" and "<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>".<br>
>You'd<br>
>> >be<br>
>> >> hard<br>
>> >> >>>> pressed<br>
>> >> >>>> to find a court of law that would accept tdfischer as my<br>
>"legal"<br>
>> >name.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> I honestly don't care what name people give when they<br>
>> >deanonymize<br>
>> >> >>>> themselves<br>
>> >> >>>> in the database. I only care that people can be held<br>
>accountable<br>
>> >for<br>
>> >> >>>> shitting<br>
>> >> >>>> in the woodshop. Consensus on all levels has it that shitting<br>
>in<br>
>> >the<br>
>> >> >>>> woodshop<br>
>> >> >>>> is unexcellent. If an anonymous person with a vendetta comes<br>
>in<br>
>> >and<br>
>> >> >>>> shits in<br>
>> >> >>>> the woodshop, how could it be prevented? Would we just hope<br>
>that<br>
>> >they<br>
>> >> >>>> don't<br>
>> >> >>>> shit in there again? Shouldn't it make sense that we would<br>
>know<br>
>> >who<br>
>> >> did<br>
>> >> >>>> it and<br>
>> >> >>>> tell the community "Hey folks, Jackhammer Jill shit in the<br>
>> >woodshop.<br>
>> >> >>>> Don't let<br>
>> >> >>>> her back in."?<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> Being listed in the access database as "member" is just a<br>
>> >technical<br>
>> >> >>>> implementation. Much like all attempts to programatically<br>
>> >validate<br>
>> >> >>>> someone's<br>
>> >> >>>> Real Name as being two separate words with UTF-8 characters,<br>
>it<br>
>> >> >>>> completely<br>
>> >> >>>> misses the reality of how things work. You still don't need<br>
>to<br>
>> >be a<br>
>> >> >>>> member to<br>
>> >> >>>> have 24/7 access to the door.<br>
>> >> >>>><br>
>> >> >>>> However, you do need the consent of Noisebridge to have it.<br>
>I'm<br>
>> >pretty<br>
>> >> >>>> much a<br>
>> >> >>>> hardass about consenting to that and insisting that I get to<br>
>> >know<br>
>> >> >>>> someone and<br>
>> >> >>>> feel comfortable with it before I'd be cool with them having<br>
>> >24/7<br>
>> >> >>>> access.<br>
>> >> >>><br>
>> >> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> >>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> >>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> >>><br>
><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> >><br>
><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
>> ><br>
>> >_______________________________________________<br>
>> >Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
>> ><a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> ><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>
<br><br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Josh Juran <<a href="mailto:jjuran@gmail.com" target="_blank">jjuran@gmail.com</a>><br>To: Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>Cc: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Date: Sun, 3 May 2015 00:18:30 -0700<br>Subject: Re: [Noisebridge-discuss] 5mof speakers + Danny O'Brient<br>On May 2, 2015, at 6:30 PM, Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> I still only have one person written down for this month's 5mof. If you'd like<br>
> to give a 5 minute talk about anything, literally anything at all, hit me up<br>
> with an email :)<br>
<br>
Where and when is it? Are there limits on how long talks are allowed to run? Guidelines on topics? Will there be recording and/or livestreaming of talks?<br>
<br>
> The Infamous Danny O'Brien has agreed to host this one as a clown. Of his own<br>
> free will. I'm serious.<br>
<br>
I suppose an individual is, in an anarchic sense, free to disregard zir contractual obligations. In any case, Danny auctioned off this perk at 5MoF in February in exchange for a donation to Noisebridge.<br>
<br>
Josh<br>
<br>
<br>
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<a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
</blockquote></div>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Torrie Fischer <<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:42:54 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Fedora on the 3d printer<br>Hi, nerysbridge.<br>
<br>
My last attempt at installing Fedora to the 3d printer was aborted early on<br>
when the whole system was totally wiped in favor of ubuntu, and left to<br>
bitrot.<br>
<br>
I'm dual booting fedora and the current ubuntu system on there, and will<br>
maintain the fedora one for a while, or at the very least make sure its hard<br>
to fuck with it.<br>
<br>
Can't even count the number of times someone's ran into problems with the<br>
current setup that has 38572 configurations when someone wants to tweak it and<br>
ends up ruining the system for everyone who doesn't know to download a fresh<br>
copy of replicatorg.<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Romy@snowyla" <<a href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com" target="_blank">romy@snowyla.com</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:40:38 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Always be creating!!<br>Whoever put the katsuhiro book here kicks ass!!!<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Romy@snowyla" <<a href="mailto:romy@snowyla.com" target="_blank">romy@snowyla.com</a>><br>To: "<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>" <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:54:01 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] More destress drawings<br>Ya! Thanks . I stopped by I'm very stressed but the manga is helping me from going crazy<br>
<br>
Keep creating Noisebridge !!<br>
<br>
Stopping by @Noisebridge & enjoying the manga .. Katsuhiro saw the future but drew with pen and ink #future #onesketchaday #hackerspace<br>
<br>
<br><br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <<a href="mailto:p@trickod.com" target="_blank">p@trickod.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 20:16:31 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] The windows are clean! It's excellent<br>I'm looking out on a great San Francsico sunset through the now spotless<br>
windows at the space. It's really amazing.<br>
<br>
Thanks so much to Louis and whoever else helped out. The space is<br>
looking really great this weekend with this and the cleaning ahead of<br>
Maker Faire. Numerous visitors remarked on how great the place was<br>
looking today while they touring the space<br>
<br>
p<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: "Patrick O'Doherty" <<a href="mailto:p@trickod.com" target="_blank">p@trickod.com</a>><br>To: <a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>Cc: <br>Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 22:19:48 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] Accepting CC donations @ Noisebridge<br>Hey folks,<br>
<br>
Noisebridge has a Square account which we can use to take in-person<br>
credit card donations. There was some confusion as to where the credit<br>
card readers were in the space, so I've left one in the donation bin by<br>
the door. It'd be great if it could live there "permanently".<br>
<br>
If you'd like to be able to accept credit card donations on behalf of<br>
Noisebridge reply to me off list and we'll set it up! It's very simple<br>
to use, you just need your phone and a reader.<br>
<br>
cheers,<br>
<br>
p<br>
<br><br>---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: Rubin Abdi <<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net" target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a>><br>To: noisebridge-discuss <<a href="mailto:noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a>><br>Cc: <br>Date: Mon, 18 May 2015 00:37:28 -0700<br>Subject: [Noisebridge-discuss] CCCamp 2015, are you going? Camping with Noiseburg?<br>Noisebridge would like to have a little village at CCCamp this year. If you're interested about going and want to camp with Noiseburg, please hit up this wiki page, throw your name down, and join the Congress mailing list. I'll be calling for a meeting sometime in the next week so we can pound out some details on what we want to do with our village.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Camp" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Camp</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/congress" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/congress</a><br>
<br>
Thanks!<br>
<br>
--<br>
Rubin<br>
<a href="mailto:rubin@starset.net" target="_blank">rubin@starset.net</a><br>
<br>
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<br></blockquote></div>
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<br></blockquote></div>