<div dir="ltr">Yes! Thank you Praveen for bring it up too, especially in this context. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:00 AM, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:tdfischer@hackerbots.net" target="_blank">tdfischer@hackerbots.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Same. I'll be there again tonight before the shop safety class. I was there<br>
last night for a bit before the meeting and had a really great discussion.<br>
<br>
This is all a very good discussion and helps all us figure out what<br>
Noisebridge means to us.<br>
<br>
~~consensus~~<br>
<span class=""><br>
On Wednesday, July 22, 2015 10:09:53 AM Ronald Cotoni wrote:<br>
> This is part of a greater discussion and I welcome it. I am also going to<br>
> be at noise bridge tonight if anyone wants to discuss this in person.<br>
><br>
</span>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:04 AM, Jehan Tremback <<a href="mailto:jehan.tremback@gmail.com">jehan.tremback@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span class="">><br>
> wrote:<br>
> > I'm not incredibly active at Noisebridge, so take my commentary as just<br>
> > commentary, but let's think of two scenarios:<br>
> ><br>
> > 1. People can come to Noisebridge and host QnA's about technical topics.<br>
> > If they are not disruptive, no problem.<br>
> ><br>
> > or<br>
> ><br>
> > 2. People are judged ad-hoc for perceived political alignment (not even<br>
> > actual political positions!), and then pressured to "donate" if their<br>
> > character is judged to not be radical enough.<br>
> ><br>
> > I'd like to see anyone who wants to teach people about open source code to<br>
> > feel free to do that at Noisebridge without being judged against some<br>
> > activist litmus test. Also, isn't it even more compromising of<br>
> > Noisebridge's values to become some sort of for-charge seminar space? The<br>
> > combination of radical rhetoric and rent-seeking is rather blatant, and<br>
> > somewhat offputting.<br>
> ><br>
> > -Jehan<br>
> ><br>
</span><span class="">> > On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 10:16 PM, Praveen Sinha <<a href="mailto:dmhomee@gmail.com">dmhomee@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >> Hey folks,<br>
> >><br>
> >> In the interest of not blocking anyone and getting more expedited, I've<br>
> >> taken this offlist. If I come across as abrasive, I apologize - I know<br>
> >> that Bryan is a great person doing very cool things, and indeed I hope to<br>
> >> participate in the MongoDB sessions myself... But a corporation is a<br>
> >> corporation is a profit extracting at all costs feelingless machine and<br>
> >> it<br>
> >> needs to be dealt with accordingly.<br>
> >><br>
> >> When thinking about an appropriate donation, I'm using a formula<br>
> >><br>
> >> something like:<br>
> >> cost per square foot * marketing/bizdev cost modifier *<br>
> >><br>
> >> bizdev/marketing budget modifier * hr/recruiting costs modifier *<br>
> >> noisebridge premium<br>
> >><br>
> >> We are a centrally located hackerspace attracting some of the best talent<br>
> >> in the bay and the world.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I'll do some research and plug some initial numbers in there tomorrow<br>
> >> (unless anyone else has a starting point) so bryan can get everything<br>
> >> calendared in ASAP.<br>
> >><br>
> >> I've also gone ahead and cc'ed mitch and naomi, in case they have input<br>
> >><br>
> >> :)<br>
> >><br>
</span><span class="">> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:43 PM, Praveen Sinha <<a href="mailto:dmhomee@gmail.com">dmhomee@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>> I'll see you next tuesday!<br>
> >>><br>
</span>> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:17 PM, Ronald Cotoni <<a href="mailto:setient@gmail.com">setient@gmail.com</a>><br>
<span class="">> >>><br>
> >>> wrote:<br>
> >>>> Praveen, first of all hi! Second, lets take this to a meeting or<br>
> >>>> something. This is not the place for this type of discussion. This is<br>
> >>>> also pretty drama filled right now and is basically a sore spot. Noise<br>
> >>>> bridge is ultimately a maker space and a hacker space. It is used to<br>
> >>>> create amazing things with software, hardware or even non technical<br>
> >>>> things. Yes, there are some politics discussed at noise bridge and we<br>
> >>>> welcome all to have rational discussions about all topics, as long as<br>
> >>>> you<br>
> >>>> respect those around you and treat them with excellence. Though that<br>
> >>>> happens a lot, that is clearly not our primary focus of making cool<br>
> >>>> things<br>
> >>>> and helping people learn to make cool things.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> Let's end this discussion and have both you and Bryan come either this<br>
> >>>> week (short notice for me and most likely others) or next week and<br>
> >>>> discuss<br>
> >>>> this. We could also plan a time that is not a Tuesday meeting so that<br>
> >>>> we<br>
> >>>> do not fill the meeting with this one subject if there is enough<br>
> >>>> interest.<br>
> >>>> Do you feel like organizing that Praveen since you seem to have a lot<br>
> >>>> of<br>
> >>>> vested interest in this particular subject? I can help facilitate.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:55 PM, Jeffrey Carl Faden <<br>
> >>>><br>
</span><span class="">> >>>> <a href="mailto:jeffreyatw@gmail.com">jeffreyatw@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>> I’m pretty sure he would. It’s not that intense, really.<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> Jeffrey<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:54 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <<br>
> >>>>><br>
</span><span class="">> >>>>> <a href="mailto:2011PIguppy2011@gmail.com">2011PIguppy2011@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>> Praveen I would highly encourage you to make these statements face to<br>
> >>>>>> face instead of over the internet. It's really draining and I would<br>
> >>>>>> be<br>
> >>>>>> very surprised if you felt it was appropriate to speak to someone<br>
> >>>>>> like that<br>
> >>>>>> in person.<br>
> >>>>>><br>
</span>> >>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 4:49 PM, Praveen Sinha <<a href="mailto:dmhomee@gmail.com">dmhomee@gmail.com</a>><br>
<div><div class="h5">> >>>>>><br>
> >>>>>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>> The issues of giving corporate free passes is centrally linked to<br>
> >>>>>>> very real gentrification issues, inside and outside noisebridge.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Inside noisebridge:<br>
> >>>>>>> - we still don't have disabled or elderly accessible<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> environments even after years of being here. Our members with<br>
> >>>>>>> accessibility issues often have to go to great struggles to figure<br>
> >>>>>>> out if<br>
> >>>>>>> they can be at the space.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> - we are still a monolingual environment, with our wiki being<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> english only inside a strong bilingual community<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> The list can go on about noisebridge and the immediate neighborhood,<br>
> >>>>>>> like providing mesh access to the low income in the community.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Having cash to do such things, beyond worrying about basic rent is<br>
> >>>>>>> of immense value.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> And yet we have actors like Jehan privileging free access to a cash<br>
> >>>>>>> heavy corporation because they use the AGPL in their product. It's<br>
> >>>>>>> very<br>
> >>>>>>> admirable that a company should do such a thing, but by that logic<br>
> >>>>>>> would<br>
> >>>>>>> you invite Oracle in to give demos because Mysql is open source?<br>
> >>>>>>> Preposterous.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> Noisebridge is not broken. Our job is not to attract wealth people<br>
> >>>>>>> from far away places like palo alto. We have value inside our own<br>
> >>>>>>> communities, in Noisebridge, in the Mission, that we have to develop<br>
> >>>>>>> and<br>
> >>>>>>> emerge to be next cutting edge.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> In so far as politics at noisebridge -- I'm sorry but NB is an<br>
> >>>>>>> explicitly political space. We host and talk about issues that are<br>
> >>>>>>> of<br>
> >>>>>>> importance to hackers that include digital rights, free internet,<br>
> >>>>>>> and yes<br>
> >>>>>>> gentrification and tech class divide in urban areas like the mission<br>
> >>>>>>> district. If you feel differently, I welcome you to shut down<br>
> >>>>>>> Techno<br>
> >>>>>>> Activism Tuesdays and the many other projects we've hosted here.<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 10:55 PM, 2011PIguppy2011 <<br>
> >>>>>>><br>
</div></div><span class="">> >>>>>>> <a href="mailto:2011PIguppy2011@gmail.com">2011PIguppy2011@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>> As far as I am concerned, free office hours are just that. I don't<br>
> >>>>>>>> see the point in injecting SF city politics / hot button issues<br>
> >>>>>>>> into this<br>
> >>>>>>>> and I see it as blatant trolling. Noisebridge is not a political<br>
> >>>>>>>> nonprofit.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> It would be great to have more responsible people in the space at a<br>
> >>>>>>>> regular time using it to hack on tech. He said it was open office<br>
> >>>>>>>> hours for<br>
> >>>>>>>> whoever.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
</span><div><div class="h5">> >>>>>>>> On Monday, July 20, 2015, Praveen Sinha <<a href="mailto:dmhomee@gmail.com">dmhomee@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 20, 2015 at 8:24 PM, Garrett Smith <<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> <a href="mailto:dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com">dhtmlkitchen@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> > We usually announce on Twitter that we’ll be available at the<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> venue and<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> > typically expect about 10 to 12 people to drop in on average.<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Anyone with<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> > questions about MongoDB are welcome. I’d like to start the<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> first "office<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> > hours” Thursday the 23rd, from 4-6 PM. Do you feel that<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> Noisebridge is an<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> > appropriate please to host these small meetups?<br>
> >>>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>>> I think that it's doocratic in the spirit of Noisebridge. You'll<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> need<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> to chec the schedule for room availability of Turing or Church<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> before<br>
> >>>>>>>>>> booking your room by editing the wiki.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> I vehemently disagree -- MongoDB is a for profit company that<br>
> >>>>>>>>> would otherwise pay top dollar to have real estate to run where it<br>
> >>>>>>>>> can get<br>
> >>>>>>>>> mindshare for other engineers. While I support noisebridge to<br>
> >>>>>>>>> support our<br>
> >>>>>>>>> own community members to launch their for profit projects (for<br>
> >>>>>>>>> example,<br>
> >>>>>>>>> mitch altman pitching his electronics), it's frankly because of<br>
> >>>>>>>>> companies<br>
> >>>>>>>>> like MongoDB getting a free ride from the city that not only is<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge's rent going up, but everyone in the neighborhood<br>
> >>>>>>>>> getting<br>
> >>>>>>>>> kicked out as well.<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> Noisebridge it /community/ space - so I really have ask, what<br>
> >>>>>>>>> concrete value does MongoDB add to this community? Why not give<br>
> >>>>>>>>> Microsoft<br>
> >>>>>>>>> or Apple free space to develop mindshare in our community?<br>
> >>>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>>> We may need cash, and once again our non-profit status does not<br>
> >>>>>>>>> allow us to have in-kind donations. But, if you really want to<br>
> >>>>>>>>> play ball<br>
> >>>>>>>>> with these companies, we better make our benefit very tangible and<br>
</div></div>> >>>>>>>>> make it *a lot*. MongoDB would otherwise pay thousands if not<br>
<span class="">> >>>>>>>>> tens of<br>
> >>>>>>>>> thousands to have a deal somewhere else in the city. We are a<br>
> >>>>>>>>> premium spot<br>
> >>>>>>>>> for it, and we should make it such that even the poorest and most<br>
> >>>>>>>>> unconnected of us are able to benefit from it.<br>
> >>>>>>>><br>
> >>>>>>>> --<br>
> >>>>>>>> (Sent from cellphone)<br>
> >>>>><br>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
</span>> >>>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<span class="">> >>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> --<br>
> >>>> Ronald Cotoni<br>
> >>>> Systems Engineer<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>> _______________________________________________<br>
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list<br>
</span>> >>>> <a href="mailto:Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net">Noisebridge-discuss@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
> >>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">Ronald Cotoni<div>Systems Engineer</div></div>
</div>