<div dir="ltr">I think learning how to braze copper pipes is a great place to start. Also look up sweating copper pipes. Once you understand how that works in theory and practice you'll be on the road to soldering your sheets.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Adam <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:adam@aperture.systems" target="_blank">adam@aperture.systems</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Also, clean the copper beforehand with muriatic acid (home depot) and<br>
then rinse with water to ensure no acid is left behind.<br>
<span class="im HOEnZb">-^-^-^-^-^-<br>
Adam Munich - Builder of wild things (and organizations)<br>
Website | Linkedin | Twitter | Tel: <a href="tel:%2B1-650-452-0554" value="+16504520554">+1-650-452-0554</a><br>
<br>
The key to mastering any skill is nothing more than passion and persistence.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Adam <adam@aperture.systems> wrote:<br>
> You need proper tools. My iron has no problem soldering copper pennies<br>
> in seconds.<br>
><br>
> Get a metcal RFGx rf generator:<br>
> <a href="http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=metcal+sts&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xmetcal+rfg.TRS0&_nkw=metcal+rfg&_sacat=0" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=metcal+sts&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.Xmetcal+rfg.TRS0&_nkw=metcal+rfg&_sacat=0</a><br>
> A wand for it: <a href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-OKI-MX-RM3E-Solder-Wand-with-Accessories-/111765721508?hash=item1a05c191a4:g:gSoAAOSwEetV7dh3" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metcal-OKI-MX-RM3E-Solder-Wand-with-Accessories-/111765721508?hash=item1a05c191a4:g:gSoAAOSwEetV7dh3</a><br>
> And this beefy tip:<br>
> <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Metcal-STTC-117-Soldering-Applications-Temperature/dp/B005T6WLY8/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1446848122&sr=8-11&keywords=metcal" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.amazon.com/Metcal-STTC-117-Soldering-Applications-Temperature/dp/B005T6WLY8/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1446848122&sr=8-11&keywords=metcal</a><br>
><br>
> Use kester solder, and you'll be up and running in a hurry.<br>
> -^-^-^-^-^-<br>
> Adam Munich - Builder of wild things (and organizations)<br>
> Website | Linkedin | Twitter | Tel: <a href="tel:%2B1-650-452-0554" value="+16504520554">+1-650-452-0554</a><br>
><br>
> The key to mastering any skill is nothing more than passion and persistence.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org">h.zeller@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> On 6 November 2015 at 13:01, Henner Zeller <<a href="mailto:h.zeller@acm.org">h.zeller@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>> On 6 November 2015 at 11:57, jim <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I've uploaded photos of my failed attempts to<br>
>>>> solder copper sheet metal :<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.systemateka.com/Copper/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.systemateka.com/Copper/</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Each of the three jpg files shows the same things<br>
>>>> from different camera POVs.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The longest copper strip separates the foreground<br>
>>>> attempts, tried various types of glues from the<br>
>>>> background attempts, tries with various types of<br>
>>>> solder and flux.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The soldering iron advertised 950 degrees F; the<br>
>>>> (blue) propane advertised 2000 degrees F; the (yellow)<br>
>>>> MAP advertised about 3000 degrees F.<br>
>>>> Each got the copper (30 gauge and 24 gauge) hot<br>
>>>> enough to melt the solder. The propane was hot enough<br>
>>>> to get the copper bright rid. The MAP was hot enough<br>
>>>> to vaporize the copper and let a little drop of<br>
>>>> molton copper fall.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Too hot! For soldering, you actually don't want to go much higher than<br>
>>> what needs to be done to melt the solder. Which means any torch based<br>
>>> attempt is probably too hard to control.<br>
>>><br>
>>> If things are too hot, then you burn the flux, and if even hotter, you<br>
>>> evaporate part of the solder which will change the composition of the<br>
>>> alloy, making it work worse.<br>
>>><br>
>>> For best results (I guess you already tried that), the copper needs to<br>
>>> be at the place of soldering; this is what flux is good for (in your<br>
>><br>
>> This should read "needs to be _clean_ at the place of soldering"<br>
>><br>
>>> case, with no electronic parts, even acid flux is ok; you get it for<br>
>>> copper-pipe buidling supplies).<br>
>>> The rosin is good flux while soldering, but for these big parts<br>
>>> pre-cleaning it with some acid-based flux is good.<br>
>>> Of course, mechanical means (steel wool?) might as well to get you started.<br>
>>><br>
>>> What I often do when I have to solder something that sucks off a lot<br>
>>> of heat (such as: huge pieces of copper that are very good in<br>
>>> conducting heat away from where you want it :) ), put it on an (old)<br>
>>> electric stove (with a solid platter, not this spiral thing rubbish)<br>
>>> to get up to temperature or close to temperature. Then whatever you do<br>
>>> with the soldering iron gets you much further.<br>
>>><br>
>>> It is not the final temperature of the iron that counts, but if it can<br>
>>> keep going in putting enough energy in when the material (here:<br>
>>> copper) sucks away the heat.<br>
>>> An iron with at least 100W is probably needed for your task (can't<br>
>>> read it on the image).<br>
>>> (950F is actually too hot, you want to be not much more than 600-700F<br>
>>> on the material). The additional heating with the stove platter helps<br>
>>> you getting better overall even heating and less premature cooling<br>
>>> with a smallish iron.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Also it avoids avoiding (too hot) solutions such as propane/MAP.<br>
>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> My interpretation of the dark brown residue on<br>
>>>> the pieces in back is that is cooked rosin.<br>
>>><br>
>>> yep, that is probably a fair assessment. Things were too hot.<br>
>>><br>
>>>> I've tried various glues: goop, water weld,<br>
>>>> super glue, krazy glue, liquid nails.... None of<br>
>>>> them hold enough to resist being pulled apart (with<br>
>>>> mild force).<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> I believe it'll be best for us to find someone<br>
>>>> who can do the work: we have various models to show.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Anybody interested in taking this project on? My<br>
>>>> guess is four to eight hours total, flexible time.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Hopefully, with thanks,<br>
>>>> jim<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 11/01/2015 03:34 AM, jim wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> oh: yes, I want to solder the pieces together.<br>
>>>> I've tried with clamping--no dice.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 11/01/2015 03:28 AM, jim wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> yes. I've cut small pieces of 30 gauge and also 24<br>
>>>> gauge and have tried to tin them (tin 'em first, then<br>
>>>> solder them together, yes?) with horrid results: a dark<br>
>>>> brown crust develops that shows little round pin-head<br>
>>>> sized circles and the solder just sits in a ball and<br>
>>>> then rolls off.<br>
>>>> I've used two different types of flux and various<br>
>>>> types of solder (tin-lead, silver...).<br>
>>>> I've gotten the copper bright red with a propane<br>
>>>> torch. I've used a soldering iron.<br>
>>>> I've washed them with alcohol, paint thinner, and<br>
>>>> muriatic acid; I've also washed them with a solution<br>
>>>> of lye and sodium carbonate and borax. I've sanded<br>
>>>> them with fine and with coarse paper, by hand and<br>
>>>> with an orbital sander.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> In the past I've soldered electronic circuits and<br>
>>>> copper pipe successfully.<br>
>>>> A couple of experienced people say it sounds like<br>
>>>> the surface of the copper sheets is contaminated, but<br>
>>>> golly! After all that scrubbing and washing and flux<br>
>>>> and heating?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On 11/01/2015 03:08 AM, Cere Davis wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> So ur just trying to solder copper to copper?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Oct 25, 2015 4:37 PM, "jim" <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com">jim@well.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I've soldered electronics and plumbing and<br>
>>>>> am stuck trying to solder copper sheet metal.<br>
>>>>> I've used a soldering iron and a propane torch.<br>
>>>>> I've used alcohol, acetone, and paint thinner<br>
>>>>> to clean the copper as well as fine and coarse<br>
>>>>> sandpaper to clean the surfaces. I'm using<br>
>>>>> electronic flux (haven't yet tried plumbing<br>
>>>>> flux).<br>
>>>>> The soldering is not working: solder does<br>
>>>>> not flow or adhere to the copper, and there's<br>
>>>>> a brown residue that appears after heating.<br>
>>>>> Using a torch for forty or fifty seconds<br>
>>>>> results in flame that does not immediately<br>
>>>>> expire.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> Anybody got tips?<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>><br>
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