<div dir="ltr"><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Thanks, Rob. Sounds like some great stories on /wiki/86, as well as some potentially horrifying ones. </span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Again, nothing I've read about Jacob seems to obviously justify banning him from a space as some of the examples on that page do (e.g. intoxication, theft, physical assault). I'm not as worried about any messages being forged as I am about this being a decision made by emotion dominating and silencing reason.</span><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px"><br></span></div><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">In particular, I think it's really important to list exactly what "public claims of sexual misconduct" this ban is based on and what the chain of reasoning between them and the ban is. Based on what I read, I see reasons to warn people about getting into a sexual relationship with Jacob unless they are into enforcing / pushing boundaries also (as many powerful women are!), but not for banning him from giving talks at a space. Perhaps I missed something. Can someone please link and summarize the evidence?</span></font><div><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px"><br></span></font><div><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Sure thing, Jim. I'll refrain from quoting </span><font color="#000000" face="sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Niemöller, and just say</span></font><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px"> suppression of discussion via emotional triggers is a really shallow rhetorical tactic. I think we're better than that.</span></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 8:46 PM, jim <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jim@well.com" target="_blank">jim@well.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<br>
<font face="monospace">Thank you, Andrey, <br>
It would have been difficult for me to find <br>
the links you included. <br>
I'm sending this off-list so's not to promote <br>
more discussion (which might get heated...). <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><div><div><br>
<div>On 06/11/2016 02:46 AM, Andrey Fedorov
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Take jim's message as a request for documentation,
not necessarily a refusal to do his own research. After reading
all the original sources I can find, the accounts don't describe
someone who I'd be close friends or get in bed with, but that
bar is a bit higher than "I never want to be in the same room as
him". The anonymous nature of the announcement and non-public
reasoning that led to it is definitely weird.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>More generally (i.e. NOT about this case in particular):
smear campaigns do happen, and if whatever process is in place
for banning folks doesn't protect people from being targets,
then being part of the community becomes a risk for those who
work on things someone might want to retaliate against. That's
not unequivocally a good or a bad thing, just something that
affects the nature of the community.</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Ceren
Ercen <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ceren@ercen.com" target="_blank">ceren@ercen.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">Try doing the absolute minimum of Google
searches before complaining or waving conspiracy theories
around. You'll come off as less uninformed. Don't complain
when we don't do your Google searches for you.</p>
<p dir="ltr"> And for the rest of you who "never noticed
anything wrong".... that's on you. And you may want to
take a moment and examine yourself, to consider why you
overlooked years of warning signs. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Also, I'm only disappointed that there hadn't
been discussion of this problem on this list, yet, but as
I'm not physically located nearby SF this year, I decided
it wasn't my place to open one.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Jun 10, 2016 9:06 PM, "jim" <<a href="mailto:jim@well.com" target="_blank"></a><a href="mailto:jim@well.com" target="_blank">jim@well.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution">
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF"> <br>
<font face="monospace">I subxcribe to the
Noisebridge-announce mailing <br>
list. Today I received email from <br>
<br>
<a href="mailto:noisebridge@riseup.net" target="_blank">noisebridge@riseup.net</a> <br>
<br>
sent to the Noisebridge-announce list. Here is
the <br>
entire content of the body of the message: <br>
</font><br>
<font face="monospace"><a href="https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge_Statement_on_Jacob_Appelbaum" target="_blank">https://noisebridge.net/wiki/Noisebridge_Statement_on_Jacob_Appelbaum</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Below is my reply to the message: <br>
<br>
This is coming out of the blue for me. I
have <br>
heard no claims against Jake for any reason. <br>
<br>
My questions are <br>
* who wrote this <br>
* what is the basis of the claims against Jake?
<br>
<br>
The anonymity of the writer makes me
suspicious. <br>
The lack of information behind the primary
claim <br>
makes me suspicious. <br>
This may be an artifact of a smear campaign.
<br>
<br>
I'm presenting my concern to the
Noisebridge-discuss <br>
mailing list hoping for information. I really
hope <br>
this does not develop into an emotional
discussion. <br>
<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
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