<p dir="ltr">Lmgtfy... <a href="http://jacobappelbaum.net">http://jacobappelbaum.net</a><br>
</p>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Mon, Jun 13, 2016, 10:24 AM robb <<a href="mailto:sf99er@gmail.com">sf99er@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><span></span><span></span><span>On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:45 AM, VonGuard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vonguard@gmail.com" target="_blank">vonguard@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:</span><br><span></span></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Personally, I don't give a rats ass what this "looks like from the outside." </div></blockquote></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>that's obvious <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>If
one more fucking person DEMANDS that the victims come forward with
evidence and photos and videos and rape kits, I'm gonna blow my fucking
stack.</div></div></blockquote><div> </div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>i did not demand any physical evidence <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Demanding
evidence is NOT what you do in these cases. Instead, you quietly
discuss, find the evidence and statements needed quietly, AND NOT IN
PUBLIC, so as not to shame and humiliate the victims.</div></div></blockquote><div> </div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>again, i did not demand physical evidence. i merely suggested an anonymous account that demonstrates Jake's culpability. <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>If
you think Noisebridge did wrong, you don't trust Noisebridge. This
decision was NOT made lightly, and as it CLEARLY states in the
statement, Jake was a problem at Noisebridge BEFORE this began.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>i don't think nb did <i>wrong </i> <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>You
want facts? You go get raped by him then come back here and listen to
everyone tell you you're lying. Then try to cough up some "facts."</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>no comment <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>This
is an inherently messy situation, and you know what? Reminding us all
of that fact and questioning the victims is NOT HELPING. We know.
Noisebridge knows. Noisebridge has WAY more experience with Jake than
most people. Either trust that Noisebridge did right, or find a
hackerspace where Jake is allowed in the door, if it matters that much
to you.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>my concern for jake, personally, is nil. i do care about fairness & equity alot though <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br>We're fucking done with him. Go plead his case and cast aspersions on the victims elsewhere.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>you are seriously delusional if you think i'm pleading his case. my concern is for nb. this is a public list. libel is a real. <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>It
makes me physically ill to see more people supporting Jake than the
victims. I don't care how ham-fisted their reports sound. Assuming
multiple ladies and men are lying and Noisebridge is just being
reactionary is just ludicrous.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>i am not supporting jake <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>For all these accusations to be right ONLY ONE THING MUST BE TRUE: Jacob has to be a bad guy. Terrible to believe, I know.</div><div><br></div><div><br>For
all the accusations to be wrong, and for all these orgs to to toss
Jacob out improperly, then everyone of the orgs and every one of Jacobs
accusers has to be wrong. </div></div></blockquote></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>clearly, i'm lacking some facts here <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Explain
to me again how it makes sense to shame the victims and everyone else
involved and run to the defense of a single, powerful individual accused
of shaming victims and threatening them. Please explain to me how the
one accused of making these victims feel afraid and ashamed needs your
help, rather than the victims needing your help.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>i'm not trying to defend anyone but nb. <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div><br></div><div>Please,
continue discussing this on the email list and informing all of us at
Noisebridge that we made a hasty decisions you don't like, assuming
wee're all just reactionaries and making this shit up. Assume we don't
know Jacob better than you. Please, continue to assume we don't have
dozens of other cases where Jacob hurt members of the Noisebridge
community in the past. Please assume we're just being vengeful.</div><div><br></div></div></blockquote></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>YOU are reactionary, evidenced by your response to my post<br> <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>Please, continue to victim shame.</div></div></blockquote></span></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div>nice conclusion...now where exactly in my post did i shame any victims?<br><br></div><div>again, <br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span><div>the allegations against jake are extremely serious accusations.<br></div>it is imperative to handle this matter responsibly for all the parties involved - including nb & tor project.<br><br></span></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div></div>i wish you all well</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:45 AM, VonGuard <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:vonguard@gmail.com" target="_blank">vonguard@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Personally, I don't give a rats ass what this "looks like from the outside." <div><br></div><div>If one more fucking person DEMANDS that the victims come forward with evidence and photos and videos and rape kits, I'm gonna blow my fucking stack.</div><div><br></div><div>Demanding evidence is NOT what you do in these cases. Instead, you quietly discuss, find the evidence and statements needed quietly, AND NOT IN PUBLIC, so as not to shame and humiliate the victims.</div><div><br></div><div>If you think Noisebridge did wrong, you don't trust Noisebridge. This decision was NOT made lightly, and as it CLEARLY states in the statement, Jake was a problem at Noisebridge BEFORE this began.</div><div><br></div><div>You want facts? You go get raped by him then come back here and listen to everyone tell you you're lying. Then try to cough up some "facts."</div><div><br></div><div>This is an inherently messy situation, and you know what? Reminding us all of that fact and questioning the victims is NOT HELPING. We know. Noisebridge knows. Noisebridge has WAY more experience with Jake than most people. Either trust that Noisebridge did right, or find a hackerspace where Jake is allowed in the door, if it matters that much to you.</div><div><br>We're fucking done with him. Go plead his case and cast aspersions on the victims elsewhere.</div><div><br></div><div>It makes me physically ill to see more people supporting Jake than the victims. I don't care how ham-fisted their reports sound. Assuming multiple ladies and men are lying and Noisebridge is just being reactionary is just ludicrous.</div><div><br></div><div>For all these accusations to be right ONLY ONE THING MUST BE TRUE: Jacob has to be a bad guy. Terrible to believe, I know.</div><div><br></div><div><br>For all the accusations to be wrong, and for all these orgs to to toss Jacob out improperly, then everyone of the orgs and every one of Jacobs accusers has to be wrong. </div><div><br></div><div>Explain to me again how it makes sense to shame the victims and everyone else involved and run to the defense of a single, powerful individual accused of shaming victims and threatening them. Please explain to me how the one accused of making these victims feel afraid and ashamed needs your help, rather than the victims needing your help.</div><div><br></div><div>Please, continue discussing this on the email list and informing all of us at Noisebridge that we made a hasty decisions you don't like, assuming wee're all just reactionaries and making this shit up. Assume we don't know Jacob better than you. Please, continue to assume we don't have dozens of other cases where Jacob hurt members of the Noisebridge community in the past. Please assume we're just being vengeful.</div><div><br></div><div>Please, continue to victim shame.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On Mon, Jun 13, 2016 at 8:33 AM, robb <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sf99er@gmail.com" target="_blank">sf99er@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>fwiw, from the outside, this looks like a smear campaign. <br></div>perhaps an account of the facts - changing the names to protect the innocent - could be posted somewhere.<br></div>repeated
statements of conclusions w/o facts are not convincing & do more to
raise suspicions about an unaccountable process than they do about
Appelbaum's conduct.<br></div><div>the allegations against jake are extremely serious accusations.<br></div><div>it is imperative to handle this matter responsibly for all the parties involved - including nb & tor project.<br></div>~r<div class="gmail_extra"><a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank"></a><br><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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