<div dir="ltr">regarding ginger beer, i spent much of 2012 making gb using an authentic gb plant.<div style>highly recommended over yeasted versions.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 4:24 AM, Richard Conroy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:richard.conroy@gmail.com" target="_blank">richard.conroy@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Hi Frantisek,<div> I have done quite a lot of alcoholic ferments using ginger, and started out much the same as the way you did. I have since moved on to making my ginger beer with malt extract/all grain, and hopping it just like any other beer.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Also using honey rather than refined sugar is another trick that I really like, I use it for honey ginger wines where I want to have a higher alcohol strength beverage (~8-10% ABV). Ginger + Honey + Red soft fruits & berries (especially plums) = AWESOME.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Standard advice with alcoholic ferments is to ferment until complete and resweeten/prime when the yeast is done. The higher the strength, the longer you will need to leave it age and develop flavour, but they also preserve longer. You will need a hydrometer/refractometer. If you bottle too early you can get some interesting bottle bombs.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Many of the components of ginger, including its fieryness are in my experience very volatile, and blow out your airlock when you do alcoholic ferments.</div><div><br></div><div>
I am thinking of trying to introduce more of it at batch priming time instead (but I dont do batch priming currently). The theory is that you add your priming sugar into a solution, and siphon your ferment onto it. Leave until it fully mixes and then bottle with that. Your priming solution can contain more than just water, and you can use it to introduce flavour kicks or volatile aromas lost during fermentation. Haven't tested this yet.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I have haphazardly taken down odd notes and photos here: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/The.Sum.of.all.Beers" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/The.Sum.of.all.Beers</a></div><div><br></div>
<div>Been meaning to store this in somewhere more ordered, but life is a bit too busy at the moment.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 8:14 AM, Frantisek Apfelbeck <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com" target="_blank">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:bookman old style,new york,times,serif"><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><span>Hi Michael,</span></div><div style="background-color:transparent">
<span><font>Many thanks for tips! I will get back to your email most likely tomorrow. Just for now I've relocated to South Korea, specifically to the island called Jeju. Beautiful location but I have not found a brewing shop here yet so I have to be minimalistic. </font></span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><span><font><br></font></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">
<span><font>Anyway talk to you more tomorrow and once more thanks for your tips.</font></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">
<span><font><br></font></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><span><font>Sincerely,</font></span></div>
<div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"> </div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck<br><br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker</div><br><br><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org" target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a></div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br><br></div></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><div>
"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi<br><br> </div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"> <div style="font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Michael Lyons <<a href="mailto:cprmichael@yahoo.com" target="_blank">cprmichael@yahoo.com</a>><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Frantisek Apfelbeck <<a href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com" target="_blank">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday,
March 5, 2013 3:46 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [Tastebridge] suggestions for alcoholic ginger beer experiments<br> </font> </div> <br>
<div><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><div>Thanks for asking. I've have quite a bit of experience brewing though hardly consider myself to be an expert. I applaud you for brewing an alcoholic drink that is not beer. Personally, I stopped brewing beer a few years ago when the price of ingredients doubled and it became cost prohibitive for me.</div>
<div><br></div><div>First of all, there are many reasons to not use baking yeast, and many types of yeast to choose from which have different qualities you can take advantage of. One of these qualities is the alcohol concentration at which the yeast attenuates ie. stops functioning. Another quality is how well the dead yeast flocculate and settle out of the liquid.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Another substance you might want to consider is Yeast Nutrient, which is
inexpensive. I have used it when I have brewed hard
cider, which doesn't have the natural nutrients that beer wort does.</div><div>The quantity of yeast you use is not particularly relevant since the yeasties multiply and theoretically one yeast cell could (eventually) ferment any amount of beverage. Asking at brew shop is a good idea. </div>
<div>Also keep in mind that yeast are reusable, so you can save some of the used yeast in a suitable, airlocked bottle. A<span style="background-color:transparent;font-size:12pt"> really fun thing to do is to have a fresh batch ready for ferment when you siphon off the finished brew off the old yeast. Dump the fresh batch on top of the old yeast and it will take off full bore in an couple of hours.</span></div>
<div><br></div><div>As for adjusting the sweetness, I suggest using a non-fermenting sweetener, like stevia or lactose. I remember having a problem with a cider I made that would not stop fermenting. I had let it ferment until the yeast stopped,
but it ended up tasting incredibly dry. When I added more sugar to get the right sweetness, the yeast would re-activate and within a week or two the sugar would be gone and the cider would be too dry again.</div><div><br>
</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">If you are using brown sugar for flavor, remember that it is white sugar mixed with molasses, and you might as well use white sugar and add molasses for flavor.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<span style="font-style:normal">Speaking of flavorings, it is often best to add them after
the fermentation. When I tried making a cherry cider, all of my great cherry flavor</span><span style="font-style:italic"> </span>I'd added before fermenting went up in the bubbles my yeast gave off while it was working on the sugar during fermentation.</div>
<div style="font-style:italic;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
As for water, remember that Anchor brewery and I think speakeasy too, use straight SF tap water. Fine product from Hetch Hetchy. Great taste and fine to brew with. Chlorine & flouride and inconsequential no need to filter, sanitize or mess with the water from the tap; "they" already do that.</div>
<div style="font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
As for fermentation vessels, most people I know use either 5 gallon food grade plastic buckets with lids or glass carboys. Fermentation locks are necessary to keep out bacteria and errant yeast, especially during the later stages of the fermentation when the yeast is not throwing off so much CO2. Many of us rig up a blow off tube for the first part of the fermentation because ordinary locks can get clogged with vigorously bubbling yeast and blow out..</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">Fyi, we have all this gear at Noisebridge.</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">I have no idea what temperature 25C is, but the nice thing about living where we do is that yeast like it too. 60-70F. I would be leery of using a submersible pump, since the brew is not circulating and you're likely to get part of the batch too hot. Traditionally we keep blankets around the brewing vessel and they make electrically heated wraps for fermentation containers.</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
Well that's my two cents. Good luck and let me know if you have any more questions or would like any other help.</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">
<br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif">-michaeLyons</div><div><br></div> <div style="font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div style="font-family:'times new roman','new york',times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Frantisek Apfelbeck <<a href="mailto:algoldor@yahoo.com" target="_blank">algoldor@yahoo.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
"<a href="mailto:foodhackingbase@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">foodhackingbase@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:foodhackingbase@lists.hackerspaces.org" target="_blank">foodhackingbase@lists.hackerspaces.org</a>>; tastebridge tastebridge <<a href="mailto:tastebridge@lists.noisebridge.net" target="_blank">tastebridge@lists.noisebridge.net</a>>; 091 Foods <<a href="mailto:091-food@googlegroups.com" target="_blank">091-food@googlegroups.com</a>> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 4, 2013 5:06 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> [Tastebridge] suggestions for alcoholic ginger beer experiments<br> </font> </div>
<div><div> <br><div><div><div style="font-size:10pt;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><div><span><font><div style="font-size:small">Hi to all and to alcoholic brewers especially,</div>
<div style="font-size:13px">I just started a new experiment aiming to brew nice alcoholic ginger beer and I have some questions below. My first batch will be most likely too sweet, but it is the max end of the screening which I want to do (on the
sweet side), the details for the first experiment are below. I would like to ask for recommendations for the next experiments, I put some ideas below at the end. It is possible that I may be able to sell the final product, of course I plan to share the technology, recopies etc. </div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">The final volume of the brew = 5 l; Specifications:</div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">
0.1% (w/v; 5 g) of bakers dried instant yeast
(primed/activated in warm water with bit of light brown sugar for +-30 min)</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">
20% (w/v; 1000 g) of light brown sugar (dissolved in hot water)</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">4%(w/v; 200 g) of
ginger (fresh, cleaned by brush and blended in mixer, added to the brew at the beginning of fermentation)</div><div style="background-color:transparent"><font>95% of used water is commercial purified water (I shake it a bit to get some oxygen in it)</font></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><span style="background-color:transparent">fermentation vessel is 5 l plastic container, narrow mouth, closed by lid, no air lock at the momment</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><span style="background-color:transparent">the brew is fermenting at +-25C in my "aquarium heater" based incubator</span></div>
<div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif"><span style="background-color:transparent"><br></span></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:13px;background-color:transparent;font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif">
<span style="background-color:transparent">It started to go on within few hours and it is fermenting really strongly, anaerobic fermentation as mentioned. I tasted it yesterday (two days after starting) and it is quite sweet still and bit alcoholic. I am thinking about starting another brews under same conditions changing just the sugar concentration to 15% and 10%(w/v). What do you think about that? Below are more ideas, please do remember that I do not have too much experience with alcoholic fermentations. Also I ferment in the same environment all my probiotics but I am using the clean newly bought plastic vessels for the alcoholic
ginger beer. </span><br></div></font></span></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
</div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">THE NEXT EXPERIMENTS - Ideas and suggestions</div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
- decreasing the level of sugar concentrations to 10 and 15% (w/v; 500 and 750 g respectively)</div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">- changing the type of sugar for completely white sugar (which may be an issue concerning the nutrition for the yeast) resulting in more clear gingery flavour</div>
<div><font>- changing the type of sugar for </font><span>dark rich brown sugar resulting in more heavy complex flavour because of </span><font>molasses</font></div><div><font>- changing the amount of yeast added to a lower concentration to decrease the possibly off flavour </font></div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">- increasing the concentration of ginger and maybe processing it with heat, which would result in more "spicy flavour" due to the transformation of gingerol to more pungent zingerone </div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingerol" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gingerol</a></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
- more ideas?</div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div>I should mention that I do not have access to any specific yeast now, I'm bit low on cash, otherwise what strains would you recommend? I heard nice thinks about California Ale yeast but I'm not sure if it would be suitable. Maybe some more "cider" style yeast would be better?</div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">Many thanks for any ideas, I will be in touch within next few days with few news :-)</div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">Sincerely,</div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br></div><div>FAA</div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
<br></div><div><font>PS I have made another batch of kimchi yesterday from Chinese cabbage, miso, fish souse, ginger and garlic so I'm really looking forward for the results.</font></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
<br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">Frantisek Algoldor Apfelbeck<br><br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">
biotechnologist&kvasir and hacker</div><br><br><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><a href="http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org" target="_blank">http://www.frantisekapfelbeck.org</a></div>
<div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt"><br><br></div><div style="font-family:'bookman old style','new york',times,serif;font-size:10pt">"There is no way to peace, peace is the way." Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi<br>
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