<div dir="ltr">[x] 1 vote NO to anything that could/would have any potential to de-anon users.<div><br><div>after all, that's what the usage of the onions is all about, weathering the tears of speed.</div></div><div><br></div><div>your folks work on this and sharing coms on it IS appreciated though.</div><div><br></div><div>[sidenote]</div><div>i am going to meet with e. musk about potential(s) to do some f.s.f./<a href="http://sat.net/other">sat.net/other</a> things on his satellite(s) that benefit EVERYONE </div><div>before he launches any satellites. </div><div>this includes proposing providing free isp via sat. including TOR and others to everyone.</div><div>perhaps if he is OK with meeting others it may be beneficial to bring some NB 'core' folks with...</div><div>these would be selected QUIETLY if/when that were to happen...<br></div><div>full experience with NOISETOR, TOR, and encryptions would be a pre-req.</div><div>i don't feel i have enough depth of knowledge in it to speak on it efficiently.</div><div><br></div><div>more later, let me know dropping off-list to private mail if you have interest in this.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>message ends.</div><div>___________________</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 4:30 PM, Patrick O'Doherty <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:p@trickod.com" target="_blank">p@trickod.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">I hadn't considered that, and it does make a lot of sense to keep this<br>
isolation for the purposes of dealing with 3rd parties and explaining<br>
the relationship between Noise{bridge,tor}.<br>
<br>
On the subject of "other things the Tor network could use help with"<br>
I've seen requests for more meek bridges of suitable capacity<br>
(~150Mbps+). *However* there is an open question and active debate as to<br>
how comfortable the community is with Exit operators also running large<br>
Bridge relays due to the potential to deanonymize users.<br>
<br>
I think we should push forward with Exit capacity for the moment and<br>
once we have a solution turn our attention to other projects that might<br>
benefit the Tor network/community.<br>
<br>
Andy Isaacson:<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5">> It has been useful to be able to clearly say "the Noisetor machine is in<br>
> a different city, at a different ISP, on a different network and IP<br>
> block" than everything else the Noisebridge community uses. The clear<br>
> distinction helps to differentiate Tor-exit-traffic from the rest of<br>
> Noisebridge traffic and services.<br>
><br>
> So I'm not sure that putting an exit node on Monkeybrains is a great<br>
> idea from that point of view, it means there's a more complicated<br>
> statement to make.<br>
><br>
> There are other non-exit roles that the Tor network could use help with,<br>
> for example directory authorities (but there are many other roles too,<br>
> I'm not specifying dirauth as the most appropriate one). One of those<br>
> might be a better match for adding to the Monkeybrains network.<br>
><br>
> -andy<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 02:14:18PM -0800, Cooper Quintin wrote:<br>
>> A long time friend of mine is their longest standing employee, I could<br>
>> make an introduction.<br>
>><br>
>> On 01/23/2017 12:37 PM, Patrick O'Doherty wrote:<br>
>>> Monkeybrains also provides colo services[0]<br>
>>><br>
>>> Maybe we should reach out to see if they'd be willing to host an Exit at<br>
>>> their mission facility? It would appear that costs might be reasonable<br>
>>><br>
>>> [0] - <a href="https://www.monkeybrains.net/colocation.php" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.monkeybrains.net/<wbr>colocation.php</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Ben Kochie:<br>
>>>> What we really would like is to buy bandwidth in a new colo facility<br>
>>>> we're<br>
>>>> moving to. If Monkey Brains has cross-connects into Equinix, we'd<br>
>>>> love to<br>
>>>> talk.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 8:01 PM, Cooper Quintin <<a href="mailto:cooperq@eff.org">cooperq@eff.org</a>><br>
>>>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> Let me reccomend Monkey Brains as an ISP that might be willing to host<br>
>>>>> an exit node as well.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 01/23/2017 11:00 AM, mark burdett wrote:<br>
>>>>>> There are some tor exit nodes running on Hurricane Electric,<br>
>>>>>> operated by<br>
>>>>>> three different people (one of whom works at Naval Research Lab),<br>
>>>>>> according to <a href="https://torstatus.blutmagie.de/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://torstatus.blutmagie.<wbr>de/</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I guess this makes Hurricane less ideal than another ISP with no<br>
>>>>>> nodes.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> No details at<br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/GoodBadISPs" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://trac.torproject.org/<wbr>projects/tor/wiki/doc/<wbr>GoodBadISPs</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/ISPCorrespondence" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://trac.torproject.org/<wbr>projects/tor/wiki/doc/<wbr>ISPCorrespondence</a><br>
>>>>>> except mention of "cheap <a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">he.net</a> <<a href="http://he.net" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://he.net</a>> bandwidth" in a note<br>
>>>>>> about another ISP<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> --mark B.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 23, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Patrick O'Doherty <<a href="mailto:p@trickod.com">p@trickod.com</a><br>
>>>>>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:p@trickod.com">p@trickod.com</a>>> wrote:<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> A very quick search across the archive shows few results for HE<br>
>>>>>> specifically.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> The most promising is from 2013 with someone claiming that "My<br>
>>>>>> colo<br>
>>>>>> provider Hurricane Electric understands Tor"<br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2013-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.torproject.org/<wbr>pipermail/tor-relays/2013-</a><br>
>>>>> March/001956.html<br>
>>>>>> <<a href="https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-relays/2013-" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.torproject.org/<wbr>pipermail/tor-relays/2013-</a><br>
>>>>> March/001956.html><br>
>>>>>> which doesn't seem to be the case in our situation.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Patrick O'Doherty:<br>
>>>>>> > This might be an interesting thread to cc the tor-relays list<br>
>>>>>> about. I'd<br>
>>>>>> > search for HE in the archives first though.<br>
>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>> > The HE policies in question for others to view<br>
>>>>>> > * TOS <a href="https://he.net/tos.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://he.net/tos.html</a><br>
>>>>>> > * AUP <a href="https://he.net/aup.html" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://he.net/aup.html</a><br>
>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>> > Things like AUP section 2.2 "No customer shall do anything that<br>
>>>>> could<br>
>>>>>> > get any portion of Hurricane Electric's IP space ... put on<br>
>>>>>> blacklists"<br>
>>>>>> > are things we can't possibly comply with given the nature of<br>
>>>>>> the<br>
>>>>> Exit.<br>
>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>> > Ben Kochie:<br>
>>>>>> >> Patrick and I approached HE about running an exit via their<br>
>>>>>> network. We<br>
>>>>>> >> were up front and honest.<br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >> They came back with a non-answer reply of "Have you read our<br>
>>>>> terms of<br>
>>>>>> >> service?"<br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >> Of course we can't promise anything, and given the overly<br>
>>>>>> broad<br>
>>>>>> terms, HE<br>
>>>>>> >> is not an option.<br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >> How have we approached vendors in the past?<br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> >> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>>>> >> tor mailing list<br>
>>>>>> >> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.<wbr>net</a>><br>
>>>>>> >> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
>>>>>> <<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a>><br>
>>>>>> >><br>
>>>>>> ><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>>>> tor mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.<wbr>net</a>><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
>>>>>> <<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>>>> tor mailing list<br>
>>>>>> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>>> tor mailing list<br>
>>>>> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
>>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>>>> tor mailing list<br>
>>>> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>>>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
>>>><br>
>>><br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
>> tor mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
>> <a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
><br>
<br>
</div></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tor mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:tor@lists.noisebridge.net">tor@lists.noisebridge.net</a><br>
<a href="https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/tor" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.noisebridge.net/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/tor</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><p style="margin-bottom:0.0001pt"><b><span style="font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">~the quieter you become,
the more you are able to hear...</span></b></p></div>
</div>