[Build] priorities, schedule and work party Re: Electrical Tracing Party
neil maclean
neil at warmcove.org
Sat Aug 29 20:19:25 UTC 2009
Jim and I have agreed to join up in the space together for most of the
day Monday and Tuesday. It would be great if two perhaps three other
people could be there to help us during most of that time. two to four
hour shifts would be great. I think if we can do this we will have the
sub panels in and most of the other questions answered and be ready for
the next phase of building out the branch circuits.
Neil
jim wrote:
> comments interspersed:
>
> On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 09:37 -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
>
>> OK, so an attempt at creating a prioritized task list:
>>
>> 1) Put the front panel back together, possibly replacing some or all
>> of it.
>>
> If I understand right, this item will bring power back to the front end
> of the building?
>
>> This is a day's work for one or two people?
>>
> JS: this is not priority 1, probably priority 3 or so.
> while we're working, best to have power off. probably
> eight hours work.
>
>> 2) Run 1.25" conduit and wire to the Kitchen area, and mount a
>> sub-panel on the pillar there
>>
> This is a day or two's work for two or three people?
> JS: ceiling work takes longer than wall work, probably
> four to six hours for two people = eight or more
> person hours just for the pipe run. another couple of
> hours to install the sub-panel. another hour to put
> in breakers. another four or more hours to run pipe
> for initial branches. another four hours to pull all
> wire. total at least sixteen person hours just to get
> the sub-panel up and ready. seems to me this is
> priority 1.
>
>> 3) Run 1" conduit from existing branch to the shop, install a
>> sub-panel
>>
> A couple of hours to a half day for one person?
> JS: more like four hours, but for each of the two
> planned sub-panels = eight hours total. probably
> priority 2.
>
>> 4) Create some local runs in the shop
>>
> A couple of hours to half a day for one person?
> JS: no. each run requires putting in pipe and boxes,
> pulling wire, installing devices, probably four
> hours per run from each sub-panel. figure two runs
> out of each small sub-panel initially. priority 4,
> says me.
>
>> 5) Create some local runs to the kitchen
>>
> A couple of hours to half a day for one person?
> JS: no, per above. figure four hours per run, and
> we'll have several runs initially, not yet sure
> how many (ben emailed re power for air and venting
> equipment, which we'll probably supply out of the
> "kitchen" sub-panel (i don't like using the word
> "kitchen" because of the code requirements it
> implies). probably priority 3.
> figure two circuits for air, one for dedicated
> ADA GFI in the ADA bath, one for cooktop and oven,
> two for local receptacles, what else in that area?
> Note each item separated by commas is likely a
> single pipe run ( == four hours, e.g. four hours
> for the two circuits for air).
> Note that we'll likely bring one or two pipe
> runs from the sub-panel to the corner near the dj
> booth.
> Again: what will we need to power in that area?
> answer asap please. we need to know before we
> purchase a sub-panel; once purchased, that's it.
>
>> 6) Finish tracing and labeling the front panel
>>
> A couple of hours work for two people?
> JS: seems mostly done for the front, i can't tell
> about the rear. neil doesn't like "front" or "rear"
> (tho' those are the names used on the basement
> shutoffs); what chinese deity names do you suggest?
> can't tell hours, probably four. priority 4 or 5.
>
>> Some definitions:
>>
>> "A person" is "a person knowledgable about electrical," except where
>> there are "more than one person" where it includes one knowledgable
>> person, and other people who are willing to do what they're told.
>>
> JS: right.
>
>> Hours above are task-hours, so "a couple of hours for a couple of
>> people" is four man hours; however, it seems to me that above is about
>> as paralellized as it can get?
>>
> JS: you misspelled "paralyzed".
>
>> Thanks guys,
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 8:05 AM, jim <jim at well.com> wrote:
>>
>> comments interspersed:
>>
>> On Sat, 2009-08-29 at 00:34 -0700, Shannon Lee wrote:
>> > So if I'm understanding correctly, the current plan is:
>> >
>> > * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel back the kitchen,
>> and run
>> > cable through it
>>
>> JS: yes (but not "cable", rather "wires").
>>
>> > * Run 1.25" conduit from the Front panel to the shop, and
>> run cable
>> > through it
>>
>> JS: no. run 1" and take it from an existing 1" run, extending
>> the existing branch and diverting it from powering a track to
>> feeding a small sub-panel ("wires" not "cable").
>>
>> > * Install a sub-panel at the kitchen
>>
>> JS: yes.
>>
>> > * Install a sub-panel in the shop
>>
>> JS: yes, but a small one.
>>
>> > * Make local runs & outlets in the shop and in the kitchen
>>
>> JS: yes, a few at first.
>>
>> > * Put the Front panel back together
>>
>> JS: buy an identical panel and rip out its guts to
>> replace the guts of the existing front panel, which
>> shows serious damage to its busses.
>>
>> > * Trace out and label the runs from the Front panel.
>>
>> JS: progress has already been made on this.
>> >
>> > This is, I understand, a completely simplistic writeup of a
>> set of
>> > complex tasks, but I want to get a handle on what needs to
>> be done.
>>
>> JS: latest tentatively agreed-upon plans include
>> diverting a second 1" pipe run from another track
>> to power a second small sub-panel somewhere "over
>> there".
>> the idea of two smaller sub-panels is primarily
>> to re-purpose existing #6 wire rather than buying
>> new wire and pipe for entirely new runs, and
>> secondarily to distribute power capability across
>> the space--we can tap sub-panels for power as we
>> decide in the future.
>> >
>> > If you look at the current, All New! taped out layout of the
>> walls, it
>> > puts the shop very close by the Rear panel, which would make
>> for an
>> > easy run.
>> >
>> > Do we really need 3-phase? I understand that it's there in
>> the front
>> > panel, and we'd be silly to rip it out, but is this
>> something we could
>> > leave as a future possibility rather than something we're
>> doing now?
>>
>> JS: yes, no. we cannot easily later put in three-
>> phase. three-phase requires four wires, correctly
>> sized pipe, and a three-phase sub-panel. Neil's run.
>> plan is to use the "stinger" leg of the three-
>> phase to power the oven and cooktop, possibly
>> some other devices.
>> if we install the usual split-phase panel, we
>> pretty much forever dismiss using three-phase and
>> we miss using the available power of the third leg.
>>
>> >
>> > I'll be in the space tomorrow and Sunday; I may be working
>> on walls
>> > with Zed or I may be free to help out with Electrical, if
>> either of
>> > you are around.
>> >
>> > --S
>> >
>> > PS, I think we should name our panels after Chinese deistic
>> entities.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 1:26 PM, neil maclean
>> <neil at warmcove.org>
>> > wrote:
>> > I just got off the phone with Jim and we made some
>> decisions
>> > that I really like.
>> >
>> > I oing to bring a rolling scaffold tonight and would
>> like help
>> > getting it up the stairs and set up in the space.
>> The scaffold
>> > can help us trace circuits and later to install pipe
>> and wire.
>> >
>> > I would like to create a plan tonight. If we finish
>> the
>> > circuit tracing, we can make decisions about how to
>> re-purpose
>> > them, take them out, or use them as they are.
>> >
>> > It would be great if one to three people could work
>> with me on
>> > Friday, (Jim is going to get the materials in the
>> morning and
>> > then come back later in the afternoon.)
>> > I could use help most of the day doing stuff like
>> carrying
>> > things around, handing it up the scaffold, rolling
>> the
>> > scaffold, opening boxes, tracing circuits, pulling
>> wires, and
>> > fastening pipe. If anyone wants to, I could also
>> share some
>> > basics about how to bend pipe, (its not really that
>> hard.)
>> >
>> > I would like to start early Friday, like 8 or 9 in
>> the
>> > morning. My goal is to get the biggest run, the one
>> to the
>> > bathroom/laundry/kitchen finished and the one to the
>> shop at
>> > least figured out and began.
>> >
>> > Neil
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Shannon Lee wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey All,
>> >
>> > Tonight at 7:00, a bunch of people are
>> getting
>> > together at 2169 to admire the floor, and to
>> give a go
>> > at finishing off the cable tracing -- we
>> need to
>> > figure out where all the breakers go.
>> >
>> > The front box is all taken apart, and we
>> won't be able
>> > to use the breakers themselves to trace out
>> -- so
>> > bring tracing equipment! I know I've got a
>> tone
>> > generator and tracer kit, it's not clear to
>> me whether
>> > it's suitable for tracing AC as well as
>> low-voltage
>> > cable; Jim recommends a battery and a
>> voltmeter -- we
>> > have a couple of voltmeters, so if you have
>> batteries
>> > suitable for this sort of adventure, be sure
>> to bring
>> > them along.
>> >
>> > See you all there,
>> >
>> > --S
>> >
>> > --
>> > Shannon Lee
>> > (503) 539-3700
>> >
>> > "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is
>> indistinguishable
>> > from science."
>> >
>> >
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> > Build mailing list
>> > Build at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >
>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/build
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in
>> US custody
>> > were tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in
>> this
>> > journal, put the number of deaths due to torture at
>> 17, with
>> > 11 cases occurring in Iraq and 6 occurring in
>> Afghanistan.[8]
>> >
>> <http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8> Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
>> >
>> > from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library
>> of Life
>> > Science Journals
>> >
>> http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
>> >
>> > --
>> > "The crimes of the US throughout the world have been
>> > systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and
>> fully
>> > documented but nobody talks about them"
>> > Harold Pinter, who died on Dec. 25th, 2008
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Shannon Lee
>> > (503) 539-3700
>> >
>> > "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from
>> science."
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shannon Lee
>> (503) 539-3700
>>
>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
>>
>
>
>
--
They further concluded that at least 8 detainees in US custody were
tortured to death. Steven Miles, reporting in this journal, put the
number of deaths due to torture at 17, with 11 cases occurring in Iraq
and 6 occurring in Afghanistan.[8]
<http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355#R8>
Many of these deaths involved torture or abuse related to harsh
interrogations of the detainees by US personnel.
from: Public Medical Records Central: a free library of Life Science
Journals
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1868355
--
"The crimes of the US throughout the world have been systematic, constant, clinical, remorseless, and fully documented but nobody talks about them"
Harold Pinter, who died on Dec. 25th, 2008
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