[Darkroom] Hello and looking for liquid bromine

Christian Rice clrice at gmail.com
Thu Jun 30 18:13:08 UTC 2011 

Here's what I'd consider a basic list for Daguerreotypes (though I have most
of it beside bromine):

elemental iodine
liquid bromine
mercury
sodium hydroxide (used for ph boost)
gold chloride (preferably powder/crystal)
sodium thiosulfate

and glass bottles/droppers w/ caps able to contain the above (PTFE?)

stuff from the local hardware store:
mineral spirits
denatured alcohol
distilled water


On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 7:40 AM, Ben Rupert <meowdip at gmail.com> wrote:

> I started reading some of the major chemical supply house's new account
> procedures.  I think we can do it, but we should have a list of
> chemicals that we want to order ready.  We won't have to order them all
> right away, I'll just need to tell them some of the sorts of things we
> will be ordering and what kinds of things we'll do with them.  Obviously
> photography related chemicals will be a big part of this.  Once we
> establish the account, however, we will be able to order anything that's
> legal for us to have at Noisebridge.  So anyway, it would be helpful to
> send me a list of chemicals that you all would want and I'll add some
> myself.
>
> Ben
>
> On 06/29/2011 09:13 PM, Christian Rice wrote:
> > That's freaking awesome.  I am in awe.
> >
> >
> > --christian
> >
> > On Jun 29, 2011, at 21:04, Ben Rupert <meowdip at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Christian- I'm a chemist at Lawrence Livermore National Lab.  I've been
> >> looking to get out of the national labs though and one option is to
> >> start my own lab.  I've picked up a few chemicals and some equipment
> >> here and there, mostly getting things cheap when start-ups have gone out
> >> of business.
> >>
> >> Kelly- I'll start looking into what various chemical suppliers want in
> >> order to establish an account.  I can make the phone calls needed once
> >> I've figured out what they want to hear.  I would actually like to do
> >> chemistry demos at Noisebridge, so I'm not going to have to lie to them,
> >> just phrase things carefully.
> >>
> >> Ben
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 06/29/2011 08:36 PM, Kelly wrote:
> >>> LET'S DO IT!!
> >>>
> >>> I can think of plenty of ways we can work out noisebridge official
> >>> payments. Where do we sign up?
> >>>
> >>> Kelly
> >>>
> >>> On Jun 29, 2011 6:33 PM, "Ben Rupert" <meowdip at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:meowdip at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> I do have a few ML of bromine I can bring to noisebridge. It might
> take
> >>>> me a few days to get it there though. Maybe even early next week.
> >>>> Also, Kelly, I think we should be able to get the major chemical
> >>>> supply houses to sell to us. They don't sell to individuals, but if I
> >>>> call up and tell them that we're an educational non-profit planning a
> >>>> bunch of science demos they will probably let us establish an account.
> >>>> After that we can order anything that doesn't require a federal
> license
> >>>> (drugs and explosives). We will have to have some official looking
> >>>> payment method, but we can figure that out.
> >>>>
> >>>> Ben
> >>>>
> >>>> On 06/29/2011 05:43 PM, david pan wrote:
> >>>>> duh, ooops. n00b error.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> /Kimberly Austin/ <http://www.kimberlyaustin.net/about.html>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:42 PM, david pan <kaptures at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:kaptures at gmail.com>
> >>>>> <mailto:kaptures at gmail.com <mailto:kaptures at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I really can't recall the photographer I am thinking of. It might
> >>>>> be Kimberly Austin, she mixes all her own emulsions by hand (for van
> >>>>> dyke, cyanotype, gum bichromate)... I just don't think it was her
> >>>>> that I had met a few years ago.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also thought of the photo center in the east bay, is it Hayward?
> >>>>> IIRC, they do a lot of teaching there and had previously focused on
> >>>>> film/darkroom & alt-process developing. I think it is in a
> >>>>> community center or some similar site.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Well, without wanting to be an imposition here, I will wish you well
> >>>>> on your endeavors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 5:11 PM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
> >>>>> <mailto:hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hey Ben, I was actually going to ping you about this anyway.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maybe it's not a good way to go for bromine in particular, but any
> >>>>> idea if we can use our non-profit status to get better chem
> >>>>> sources? I
> >>>>> know we've discussed institutional suppliers in the past.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Kelly
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 07:07, Ben Rupert <meowdip at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:meowdip at gmail.com>
> >>>>> <mailto:meowdip at gmail.com <mailto:meowdip at gmail.com>>> wrote:
> >>>>>> I might have some liquid bromine, I'll check and get back to
> >>>>> the list.
> >>>>>> Also I didn't watch the video on electrolytic bromine
> >>>>> generation, but I
> >>>>>> have a power supply made for electroplating metals which
> >>>>> should work for
> >>>>>> oxidizing Br- to Br2.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Ben
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 06/29/2011 02:03 AM, david pan wrote:
> >>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have no experience with these things myself. I tend to
> >>>>> work with
> >>>>>>> safer, more 'boring' soup ingredients (wine, coffee, tea,
> >>>>> etc) as my
> >>>>>>> film developers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You may want to try asking in the photo department at CCSF.
> >>>>> They have
> >>>>>>> some very capable faculty. I also seem to remember a
> >>>>> professional
> >>>>>>> photographer in the east bay who did a lot of Van Dyke brown and
> >>>>>>> cyanotype and other homemade process photography. I can't
> >>>>> remember, I'd
> >>>>>>> only met her once or twice. I think she lives in Orinda or
> >>>>> Berkeley for
> >>>>>>> some reason. I don't recall if she did dagguerotype too. If
> >>>>> I can find
> >>>>>>> her name, I'll let you know.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Dunno if this helps at all. Cheers.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> David
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 1:47 AM, Christian Rice
> >>>>> <clrice at gmail.com <mailto:clrice at gmail.com> <mailto:clrice at gmail.com
> >>> <mailto:clrice at gmail.com>>
> >>>>>>> <mailto:clrice at gmail.com <mailto:clrice at gmail.com>
> >>> <mailto:clrice at gmail.com <mailto:clrice at gmail.com>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Another aspect of this procedure that seems like it
> >>>>> wouldn't work
> >>>>>>> for me is I don't want bromine water--I want to drip some
> >>>>> liquid
> >>>>>>> bromine onto a bed of silica gel crystals. The moisture from
> >>>>>>> bromine water is not good for my fuming process.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I think distillation might be the answer to that (as if
> >>>>> I'd know);
> >>>>>>> but it's a lot easier to talk about than for me to
> >>>>> accomplish.
> >>>>>>> Isolating bromine is not something one wants to mess up
> >>>>> with...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You seem to be confident with chemistry...where does that
> >>>>> come from,
> >>>>>>> if I may ask?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ok, I'm going cross eyed, thanks for the late night
> >>>>> responses, I'll
> >>>>>>> continue research when the sun rises.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --christian
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2011, at 1:25, Jasmine Strong
> >>>>> <jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org>
> >>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org
> >>
> >>>>>>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:
> jasmine at electronpusher.org>
> >>>>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org
> >>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> ... yeah, he should have used chlorine bleach in place
> >>>>> of hydrogen
> >>>>>>> peroxide. It would have worked then.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> -J.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2011, at 01:20, Christian Rice wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hmm, I watched that video, the procedure fails to
> >>>>> isolate bromine...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Back to the drawing board for me...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> --christian
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Jun 29, 2011, at 0:48, Jasmine Strong
> >>>>>>> <jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org>
> >>>>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:
> jasmine at electronpusher.org>>
> >>>>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org <mailto:
> jasmine at electronpusher.org>
> >>>>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org
> >>> <mailto:jasmine at electronpusher.org>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:43, Jasmine Strong wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 29 Jun 2011, at 00:39, Christian Rice wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hi there. I'm working with the mercury
> >>>>> daguerreotype process
> >>>>>>> and I'm in need of some Br2, the purer, the better,
> >>>>>> 99.x%. Water
> >>>>>>> sanitizing stuff (pool/spa tablets and powders) won't do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> You can make some by electrolyzing bromine solution
> >>>>> sold for
> >>>>>>> pool/spa use. In the quantities you need it's certainly
> >>>>> not worth
> >>>>>>> the expense of going through the hazmat training you'd
> >>>>> need to have
> >>>>>>> a commercial vendor sell you the stuff.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9zB6_-vzSM
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Here's a process for extracting the stuff.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> -J.
> >>>>>>>>
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