[Neuro] tDCS at Noisebridge?

Tue Apr 30 04:49:09 UTC 2013

I didn't see a number on the fisher wallace website...

On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:44 AM, Anthony Di Franco <di.franco at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've had by far the most success with google patent search, send a number
> and I'll have a go.
>
> On Apr 29, 2013 9:41 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Also, I want to buy something from this website on principle it is so
>> sketchy: http://www.elixa.com/CES/liss.htm
>>
>> More better, given this: http://www.elixa.com/estim/NeuroTrek.htm I
>> bet we could get them to sell a noisebridge device.
>>
>> Does anyone know how to look up a patent? I've only ever done it on
>> accident via google and that does not seem to be working. There's a
>> database right?
>>
>> -K
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:32 AM, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I just have to say that "Our device uses patented frequencies which
>> > are completely unique to our device" is the best neuromarketing
>> > horseshit I've ever heard. I need to read their patent.
>> >
>> > -K
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Justin Morrison
>> > <me at justinmorrison.net> wrote:
>> >> I'm curious about replicating results demonstrated by the FDA approved
>> >> Fisher Wallace Stimulator and similar devices.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-current
>> >>
>> >> http://www.fisherwallace.com/research-published
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Marketing speak FAQ from their website:
>> >>
>> >>> In 1991, our device received multiple 510(k) clearances that allow us
>> >>> to
>> >>> market the device for the treatment of depression, anxiety, insomnia
>> >>> and
>> >>> chronic pain.  Click HERE to read the FDA definition of Cranial
>> >>> Electrotherapy Stimulation on the FDA website.  Our technology should
>> >>> not be
>> >>> confused with Electroconvulsive Therapy (ECT) or Transcranial Magnetic
>> >>> Stimulation (TMS).
>> >>>
>> >>> Our device uses patented frequencies which are completely unique to
>> >>> our
>> >>> device.  Our device is also the only CES device on the market that is
>> >>> allowed to deliver electrical stimulation directly to the skull via
>> >>> sponge
>> >>> electrodes - all of our competitors are only allowed by the FDA to use
>> >>> ear-clip adaptors or skin patches, which many doctors believe are less
>> >>> efficient at delivering electricity to the brain. Ear clip devices can
>> >>> produce headaches and vertigo, especially in patients suffering from
>> >>> Meunier's Disease.
>> >>>
>> >>> Another major difference between our device and our competitors is
>> >>> that
>> >>> our device is manufactured in the USA and is used exclusively in
>> >>> research
>> >>> performed by the faculty of Harvard Medical School.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I suspect a DIY device could offer the same or better results for
>> >> anxiety,
>> >> insomnia, depression, which would be my target symptoms. Perhaps I
>> >> should
>> >> start a new thread to query this.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Justin Morrison
>> >> http://justinmorrison.net
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:42 PM, Andrew Stewart
>> >> <andrewxstewart at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Are you guys recording multichannel EEG alongside tDCS application?
>> >>>
>> >>> Sensible targeting hypotheses might be something like looking at
>> >>> activity of ICA EEG components before and after tDCS.  How ICs change
>> >>> with different stimulation protocols and stimulation electrode sites
>> >>> might be informative.
>> >>>
>> >>> I am really interested in what comes of testing this - and am also
>> >>> really intrigued by homebrew setups. Please report how this goes. And,
>> >>> uh, play safe.
>> >>>
>> >>> Andrew Stewart
>> >>>
>> >>> Sent from mobile - apologies for typos
>> >>>
>> >>> On 18 Apr 2013, at 05:28, Kelly <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> > To be honest, I kind of disapprove of aiming them or believing you
>> >>> > are
>> >>> > aiming them. Like I said, uber-skeptic. I won't believe the aiming
>> >>> > stuff without an MRI and a head model for *your head* and then a lot
>> >>> > of math. And maybe not then.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > There are a lot of TDCS studies though so you can largely treat your
>> >>> > head as a black box, and this is perfectly acceptable science.
>> >>> > Anything that goes on inside the box is a hypothesis. There are some
>> >>> > solid results given specific parameter combinations, and I would
>> >>> > expect that you can replicate those, and maybe you can test some
>> >>> > hypotheses as well, so long as you're careful.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I'm sure John will include safety parameters...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > -Kelly
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 9:49 PM, Anthony Di Franco
>> >>> > <di.franco at gmail.com>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >> I meant the question in the general sense you point out.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Apr 17, 2013 6:25 PM, "Mike Schachter"
>> >>> >> <mschachter at eigenminds.com>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> Out of curiosity - what effect are you trying to achieve? Wouldn't
>> >>> >>> that
>> >>> >>> dictate where you "aim" it?
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> mike
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>> On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:17 PM, Anthony Di Franco
>> >>> >>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
>> >>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> More to the point then, what's the best prior info right now on
>> >>> >>>> how
>> >>> >>>> to
>> >>> >>>> aim these things?
>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:34 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
>> >>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> I am way more skeptical of tdcs than the average tdcs hobbyist
>> >>> >>>>> because I
>> >>> >>>>> basically do data analysis and modeling and almost no practical
>> >>> >>>>> applications, so I am trained to be overly critical and believe
>> >>> >>>>> nothing.
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> That said, you should probably make some notes about task
>> >>> >>>>> structure
>> >>> >>>>> and
>> >>> >>>>> timing, stimulation time, current direction, and the location
>> >>> >>>>> and
>> >>> >>>>> size of
>> >>> >>>>> both anode and cathode.
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> John is pretty good at being skeptical of the literature though,
>> >>> >>>>> so
>> >>> >>>>> I
>> >>> >>>>> expect he will have things to add or leave out per task. Those
>> >>> >>>>> are
>> >>> >>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>> basics I would want to see from a rough science perspective
>> >>> >>>>> though.
>> >>> >>>>>
>> >>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 6:11 PM, "Anthony Di Franco"
>> >>> >>>>> <di.franco at gmail.com>
>> >>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> I can appreciate both the idea that phrenology doesn't work and
>> >>> >>>>>> the
>> >>> >>>>>> idea that there is some amount of statistical consistency
>> >>> >>>>>> across
>> >>> >>>>>> populations
>> >>> >>>>>> in roughly what brain regions do what and how people respond to
>> >>> >>>>>> stimulation
>> >>> >>>>>> of various kinds in various regions.
>> >>> >>>>>> Where would you say the distinction relevant to playing with
>> >>> >>>>>> tdcs
>> >>> >>>>>> is,
>> >>> >>>>>> if you can? (So this can be part of the documentation being
>> >>> >>>>>> assembled, I
>> >>> >>>>>> hope.)
>> >>> >>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 3:04 PM, "Kelly" <hurtstotouchfire at gmail.com>
>> >>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> I'd just like to remind everyone that phrenology doesn't work,
>> >>> >>>>>>> regardless of what you put in your table. But a list of some
>> >>> >>>>>>> basic
>> >>> >>>>>>> regions
>> >>> >>>>>>> with citations would be an awesome start. It's probably worth
>> >>> >>>>>>> making roughly
>> >>> >>>>>>> tabular even if some line items are wildly less dependable
>> >>> >>>>>>> than
>> >>> >>>>>>> others
>> >>> >>>>>>> because there are probably a few parameters that you care
>> >>> >>>>>>> about
>> >>> >>>>>>> for each
>> >>> >>>>>>> region.
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> K
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> On Apr 17, 2013 4:33 PM, "John Withers"
>> >>> >>>>>>> <jwithers at reddagger.org>
>> >>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> On 04/17/2013 01:10 PM, Anthony Di Franco wrote:
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> A section on some hackerspace's wiki summarizing where to
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> put
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> what
>> >>> >>>>>>>>> kind of stimulation to accomplish what would be ideal.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Yeah, I am actually working on that. It's part of a larger
>> >>> >>>>>>>> project
>> >>> >>>>>>>> and going to take me another few days to complete. But when I
>> >>> >>>>>>>> am
>> >>> >>>>>>>> done I will
>> >>> >>>>>>>> make sure there are links to it on the noisebridge wiki as
>> >>> >>>>>>>> well
>> >>> >>>>>>>> that of a
>> >>> >>>>>>>> couple of other spaces.
>> >>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>> j
>> >>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro mailing list
>> >>> >>>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
>> >>> >>>>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/neuro
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>>
>> >>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >>>>>>> Neuro at lists.noisebridge.net
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>> >>> >>>>
>> >>> >>>> _______________________________________________
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>> >>> >>>
>> >>> >>>
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>> >>> >>
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>> >>