[Noisebridge-discuss] Heating without electricity + watt/hour meter
Joel Jaeggli
joelja at bogus.com
Fri Dec 11 19:12:28 UTC 2009
Christie Dudley wrote:
> Pardon my ignorance, but it was my understanding that heat pumps worked
> by running coils underground and regulating temperature that way. I
> don't see how that could possibly work in the city.
heat pumps exploit the existence of temperature difference between two
locations. ground sourced heat pumps are more efficient that air sourced
but that doesn't mean that they can't be more efficient than a resistive
heater... although if the temperature differential is too high, they may
well be worse.
> I'm a fan of propane heaters. Propane burns more cleanly than any other
> combustibles. It's so clean that you don't need to vent it (so long as
> it's getting plenty of oxygen), which makes it that much more
> efficient. It's very easy to control a propane unit, as most are
> thermostatically controlled. Also, there are a fair number of us about
> the place who have a good working knowledge of propane.
>
> There are also a lot of options for propane heaters as well, although
> few are recommended to heat more than about 500 sq. ft. I figure that
> we might get by with one or two if we focus on key areas and do a lot
> with insulation. Also, an additional advantage of propane is that when
> we run out because we forgot to fill up the tank at the appropriate
> time, it's really easy to come by.
>
> Christie
> ---
> Why I take the road less traveled? Oh, that's easy. I'm claustrophobic.
>
>
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Michael Wright <mike at smallip.com
> <mailto:mike at smallip.com>> wrote:
>
> How about a portable Heat-Pump unit?
>
> http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=comparisonshopping
> <http://www.air-n-water.com/product/LX-140.html?utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=comparisonshopping>
>
> My parents have been using a window mount unit at their place in the
> central valley for like 10 years (they did opt to add a pellet stove
> as well though).
>
> These work well when the outside air isn't so cold as to make the
> "outside air" coil develop ice. Luckily SF doesn't get that cold.
>
> The upside is it's more efficient than regular electric heat.
> Regular wall plug electric heater (converts 100% of electricity to
> heat) :
>
> 1500 watts X 3.41 Watts/BTU/Hr = 5115 BTU/Hr
>
> Heat Pump Unit:
> # Heating Capacity:12,000 BTU/Hr
> # Power Consumption: Heating- 1160 W
>
> That looks like about 200% of the heating for about 77% of the
> electricity. In terms of total heating capacity it would be
> equivelent to 2 1500 Watt wall plug heaters costing about $35 each
> (less if one accepts the loud ones, more if one wants the spiffy
> quartz radiant ones).
>
> The downside is that it needs access to a window, isn't quiet, and
> cost $500 bucks.
>
> On other notes, any kind of convection heater (the oil filled
> radiator ones) will be a poor choice because they act slow and heat
> _all_ the air in a room, which is actually a lot more air than we
> want heated (because we technically have only one room).
>
>
>
> mike
>
>
> On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:25 PM, Vlad Spears wrote:
>
>> It's not random fire from the installation I would be concerned
>> about. That should be fine. I think the "random fire in
>> noisebridge"
>> might go something like this:
>>
>> "It's pretty warm here by the stove, but not all the way over by the
>> far side where I want to sit."
>>
>> "I know! Let's build a supplementary stove from cpu casings lined
>> with tinfoil and crushed kitchen tile, and move some of the fire
>> over
>> there with an old hard drive platter."
>>
>> "Brilliant! If this works out, we can put it on top of the dark
>> room!"
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 8, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Martin Bogomolni wrote:
>>
>>> There's nothing "random" about the installation of a pellet burning
>>> stove. Installing one in San Francisco requires permits, proper
>>> ventilation and ductwork installed by qualified contractors, etc.
>>>
>>> There are also regular "burn bans" in San Francisco to preserve air
>>> quality, usually on the coldest days of the year. So just when you
>>> want to burn the most, you can't.
>>>
>>> Six of one, half a dozen of the other, it's pretty economical, but a
>>> pain in the butt to install one.
>>>
>>> -Martin
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 2:50 PM, Shannon Lee <shannon at scatter.com
>>> <mailto:shannon at scatter.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Hey,
>>>>
>>>> There was some discussion about having propane heat, specifically
>>>> so that we
>>>> can get people who want heat to fund heat on a very atomic level.
>>>> We have
>>>> been leaning against it because of fire hazards; specifically, we
>>>> have an
>>>> extensive sprinkler system, so even a small fire problem can turn
>>>> into a
>>>> huge water problem.
>>>>
>>>> I just see a huge potential problem with random fire in noisebridge.
>>>>
>>>> --S
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 12:29 PM, Kevin Warnock
>>>> <kevin at warnock.com <mailto:kevin at warnock.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> This is my first post to this discussion group. I'm not a member,
>>>>> but I've
>>>>> visited about a dozen times so far.
>>>>> I have been reading about the electric bill issues. I have a watt-
>>>>> hour
>>>>> meter I could let the Noisebridge borrow for a while, so the
>>>>> lights could be
>>>>> tested. The meter will calculate the price to run the lights as
>>>>> well,
>>>>> because you can program the electricity rate into it.
>>>>> Separately, has any thought been given to installing a wood
>>>>> pellet
>>>>> stove
>>>>> for heat? The pellets are much less costly per btu than electric
>>>>> heat
>>>>> produced... I think half or a third as much. The pellets can be
>>>>> ordered by
>>>>> the truck load, and since there is a freight elevator, they can
>>>>> be
>>>>> brought
>>>>> up to the third floor. Another advantage is that the rate per
>>>>> pound goes
>>>>> down when you buy more, not up like with electricity, at least
>>>>> that's the
>>>>> way residential electricity works... not sure about commercial
>>>>> electricity.
>>>>> A single pellet stove will heat the entire Noisebridge to a toasty
>>>>> temperature if desired, and would only have to be filled every
>>>>> few
>>>>> days I
>>>>> think. I think the flu can exit through a wall. I have no personal
>>>>> experience with pellet stoves, but I do have experience with wood
>>>>> stoves,
>>>>> and they produce a LOT of heat... I would guess the heat of 20+
>>>>> electric
>>>>> space heaters when they are burning a full load of wood.
>>>>> The pellets are about 1/2' long and a 1/4" in diameter.
>>>>> Hope this helps.
>>>>> --
>>>>> Kevin Warnock
>>>>> (415) 661-5600
>>>>> Blog: KevinWarnock.com <http://KevinWarnock.com>
>>>>> Website: gOffice.com <http://gOffice.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
>>>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
>>>>> <mailto:Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net>
>>>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Shannon Lee
>>>> (503) 539-3700
>>>>
>>>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
>>>>
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