[Noisebridge-discuss] meeting notes 2009-03-10

[Rachel McConnell]

I have done my best to distill the 2 hour conversation about grievances
and socialization into just the salient bits.  Please, if you were
involved in the discussion, read this over and speak up if I have
misunderstood your meaning.  Also there were contributions from people
whose names I didn't get, and a couple voices I didn't recognize, so
there are places I wrote (someone) instead of a name.  The audio is
destroyed.

All over again I am impressed with the maturity of the discussion.  Yay
us!

Rachel

========
1. introductions happened

Recent donations:
  * Quinn: Tcho gave us chocolates.  Maybe they'll give us big blocks of
  chocolate to hack on
  * Shannon L: brought a bunch of old phones, blackberry, treo, etc. 
  hack on them.  they are in the drawers next to the hack shelf
  * Shannon L: a lot of shop tools were donated tonight by random
  donator Noah, who is moving to NY.  Bandsaw, table saw, radial arm
  saw, router & table.  Thanks Noah!  Also, Bill donated another
  bandsaw.  Thanks Bill!  Note that the table saw is missing all of its
  safety attachments

Seth: Safety committee meeting thursday at 7. check wiki.

Asheesh: Debian LENNY release party tomorrow at Revolution Cafe, 6:30 PM

Steen: Circuit Hacking Mondays is awesome, Mitch teaches anyone to
solder.

Asheesh: Pyclass Mondays 6:30 PM.

Asheesh: want to set up IMAP servers to do multi-master replication. 
Anyone interested in this, talk to him.  Also, would like to build a
backend for the Gmail interface so you can have that fronting your own
mailserver.

Machine Learning Wed: Josh not here, this week is baby neural network,
see wiki & emails.

Natural Language Corners:
  * Mandarin Corner Fridays at 5PM
  * there is still interest in German but nobody has scheduled it yet
  * Spanish?  happened once, Daniela seems very busy just now.

Five Minutes of Fame, Aestetix
  10 5-minute talks about whatever.  Third Thursday of the month, which
  is the 19th this month.  A few slots still open (as of Tues).  Steen:
  this is excellent practice if you haven't ever given a talk and would
  like to try it. Enki: saw binary analyst explain that for security
  vulnerabilities in 4 minutes once, impressive.

Go workshop, Enki.
  We have a Go board.  Last major game at which computers aren't
  anywhere near a human expert.  Interesting from POV of how we learn. 
  Also fun to play.  May be meeting this Sunday.  3PM.  Bring boards or
  mats.  Enki will present how to play.

Nanna: lots of the projects have paper material attached.  Example: ham
radio workshop.  She has put this in a purple notebook for future
reference.  It's in the library.  Add things as they occur.

Treasurer's report: Mitch not in attendance.  We have about $7k in the
bank.  Pay your dues if you have not done so.

Shop leak: has dried up.  No action from landlord.

DIY Bio, Praveen.
  He will talk @ safety committee also.  Some upcoming experiments
  involving potentially unusual materials including e. Coli. Want to
  make them glow green. Have been putting together safety guidelines. 
  Bring up issues with him if you have any.  (Q: can we repopulate our
  stomach populations with the green ones?  Maybe, but not by accident) 
  e.Coli not to be kept here, care being taken for immunocompromised
  people, pets, childern, etc.  Cleanup to be done with bleach, not in
  sink.

Discussion about More Space, More Members
  * lease is up in October
  * space getting cheaper
  * need more $$$, does this mean more members?
  * should not try to grow just to get more money
  * we started this space with no money and once we had it the members
  came
  * then, there was pent up demand, may not be same situation now
  * people joining at rate variously estimated at 1/week, 1.5/month
  * let's not proselytize, let's let serendipity lead people here
  * Steen: was at Deathguild in NB t-shirt, it was recognized

Noisebridge T-shirts.
  * Mitch made some, they may all be sold
  * the logo files are on the wiki, feel free to make your own

Junk in space
  * Enki: there is more junk now than previously
  * someone: work with Rubin, he made a system
  * apparent general feeling that junk can be gotten rid of by anyone
  who makes the effort to do so

Maker Fair coming up
  * Steen: a) should we have an official NB presence; b) should it
  coordinate with a membership drive
  * Mitch probably going with soldering projects, join up with him?
  * could bring fun stuff:
    * LED board, game of life
    * payphone cell phone (GSM base station?)
  * consensus decision planned for next week

CodeCon, Nanna:
  This is also coming up.  May still have slots for presentations. 
  also: go, there will be good talks

Shall we reimburse Mitch for the stickers he bought?  Carried over from
last week.  Consensus decision, yes.  No objections.

Names & Faces board, Al S:
  Put yourself up on the cork board.  it is behind the door.  Useful for
  new members.  Nanna: please write legibly.

--------
Discussion about grievance process.
  An event happened involving Mike K and an unnamed member that has
  precipitated this.

Quinn: need to take into account that 'excellent' means different things
to different people. need procedure that is safe & reasonable to air
grievances.  also, culture of consent

Jake: we have that.  know that in this case, consent was requested

(someone): hasn't there been a grievance process? does something more
formal need to exist?

q: yes, but too implicit.  must happen quickly, so person doesn't stew

Shannon L: so they don't just leave instead of dealing

Quinn: person may need advocate for anonymity

(someone): all those things happened in this case

Nanna: as long-time habitue of dork spaces: mike is typical, lack of
social skills is typical. worry about what new people may think, is this
the right place, we might get 'fashionable' -- captain crunch like this
too.  they're some of the best people in the field.

Shannon L: i hope we can be tolerant of socially unskilled nerds

Quinn: community not about being around only people you like.  judge
strength of community by how much you can get done by people who don't
want to be at the same dinner party.

Nanna: mike has huge history of hacking interesting stuff.  good for
everyone's social skills to learn to deal with him.  what event is this?

Quinn: unhook discussions from event

(someone): 2 outstanding issues.  1. are there processes we don't know
about.  not clear to know what to do when people misbehave, or being
uncomfortable.  2. does mike have pattern of behavior that is
unacceptable for this space.

Shannon L: process is to bring it up in the meeting, if not comfortable
then find an advocate

Enki: makes sense to choose a smaller group at first to prevent what
people want to avoid, a lynching.

[digression into how the event was handled]

Asheesh: how about community appointed advocate?

general: no, keep it at an individual choice level

(someone): there's an implicit process already but nobody knows.

Shannon L: it is talked about at every meeting

Rachel: only in context of membership process not grievance process

(someone): as a new member not at all clear that this is how grievances
should be dealt with; we need to advertise that point

Christie: 2 suggestions, either directly confront a member or bring it
up in the meeting, are 2 opposite extremes. certain behaviors i would
not feel comfortable talking to them about it, but 3rd party ok who
could then talk to them.

Shannon L: not need explicit advocate, don't have to handle it at the
meeting, can be personal.  however if group has to take action it has to
come up at a meeting

[digression about mike being difficult, scaring new people off?]

Ceren?: for new people or the shy, especially if you have no seniority,
you may feel you have no right or it's not socially appropriate to tell
someone to go away, not everyone is ballsy 

Grey: new people: great to do weekly thing.  we are all advocates for
the space at all times.  someone new comes in, it is incumbent upon you
to talk to them & show them what it's all about

Rachel: which is exactly what mike is doing

Grey?: maybe you don't want to talk to the new person? why not?

Nanna: model behavior, don't prescribe.  figure out a way to deal with
him that's not just "go away mike". model it: "mike i can't talk just
now"

Jonathan: space shouldn't have hierarchy or seniority

Rachel: if you're new you don't know that yet, you are socially 'small'

Christie: people ask, how to encourage women.  women would rather leave
then have to tell someone they're exhibiting bad behavior

Grey: we're not encouraging bad behavior, motto is be excellent

Christie: issue is how to address that.  if woman has to tell someone,
stop, shut up? i don't want to have to do that.

(someone): not just women, some men too

Asheesh: add some noise to this:  jeff s, been here a couple times,
friend of mine, chatted with mike 30 minutes.  jeff said afterwards i
always felt like mike was a crackpot or insane then would say this one
bright sharp thing then be completely incomprehensible again.  proof it
is possible to enjoy mike.  jeff has done this 2x at least, &
recommended him to talk to other people

Jonathan: let's either say, we're done talking about more policy, or
talk more about that and not about mike. 

Quinn: let's close out policy conversation.  need to advertise it more,
where people can find it.

Ceren?: on the door when you come in

(someone): if our current policy is, if someone's doing something you
don't like, talk to them, or get someone else to talk to them.  let's
say that every week at meeting during what nb's about, it takes 30
seconds

Jake: normalization of the community.  sounds obvious & i have heard it
many times

Quinn: never heard it

Jake: some people here never been to meeting.  we've always been about
participation, you have to step up and do it.  socialization process is
missing for new people, who may not realize it's up to them to be
empowered or can choose to have an advocate

Quinn: not just up to them, but also know they have social permission to
do it

Shannon L: wants a consensus on to include grievance policy as part of
the context

all: item for next week

Steen: more generally, speak to the self-motivated nature of everything
Do-ocracy, include, specifically if you have a grievance, make the
resolution happen.

ceren?: add, advocate is OK.  needs way to step back from the upsetting
thing, all grievance policies need this.  way to separate the parties.

Quinn: nb takes on responsibility of arbitration, we agree that we as a
group will do that if needed

Praveen: take a grievance situation, how do we take that and use it to
strengthen our community.

Shannon L: point of have open & loose way of coping is that we can
respond in a contextually appropriate manner. 

Quinn: arbitration is about getting people back together

Shannon L: specific people who can act as arbirtrators?

Enki: no, every situation is different & needs different people

Jake: we've had conflict in past & solved them.  if it's big then we
need to escalate but we are not about formalizing things

[digression about implicit & explicit power structures]

Shannon L: talk next week about consensus on grievance model by
resolving directly or using advocate to resolve directly or bring to
meeting; articulate that policy as part of weekly context.

Enki: worked well this time around

Jake: process we had was not necessarily the best & productive but
creating an explicit structure is not solution

Steen: not further formalize, but further express/articulate it

Praveen: talk to someone or find some else to talk about it. there's no
structure there

Shannon L: make you feel like you can cope with your own problems, not
feel desperate about not being able to cope

Steen: the process exists, has been implicit so far.  but other
potential debate: are we trying to change it?  that's a longer
discussion.  some people wish to change it

(general disagreement as to whether that is the case)

Rachel: are we agreed that the process currently is, talk to the person
you have a problem with, if you're not comfortable talking to that
person directly, find an advocate to help you handle it in some manner.

(general agreement)

Praveen: put it on the wiki.

[discussion of whether anyone reads the wiki]

Shannon L: get people to deal with the problem rather than leaving. 

Quinn: there are lots of groups where it isn't OK to deal with problems,
it's nice that this is one where it is.

Nanna: suggestion, look for someone who isn't having a problem with the
person and ask them what their technique is.  the policing about drink
payment is much more dangerous than anything mike does.

[digression into drinks, agreement to put it off until next week.]

[digression into mediation practice]

Steen: if we're done with grievance, do we still need to talk about
mike?

Enki: would not have brought it up in meeting, would like to phrase it
like, think about it as someone new coming in here and having a problem
and not coming again.  new people need to get a good impression, we
should take care of them

Shannon L: best way to protect new people from talking to mike is by
talking to mike yourself.

Asheesh: or bring jeff in, who loves talking to him

Jake: mike is a member, we need to have solidarity with our current
member base, not worry so much about a hypothetical person who may one
day be a member.  don't like seeing everyone gang up on him.

Enki: new people need an advocate too

Quinn: people can have a bad experience that has nothing to do with
mike.  i've seen more of people walking in and nobody talks to them
period.  sometimes i'm not going to talk to anyone.  that's why i
suggest meet & greet, even if i can't talk i can grunt & point at the
sign that says "come back thursday night".

Rachel: let's put a sign on the door that says, beware: geeks, may be
weird!  enter at your own risk!

Praveen: this is SF, home of emperor norton, we DO crazy people.  one
negative experience won't kill a community.

Enki: approach new people, try to give them a good experience, if the
aren't having a good experience, step in.  that's responsibility of
people here

Christie: no, we're not in marketing

John M: social dynamic is a huge part of what attracted me, not just the
technical stuff.  be mindful of the dynamics, every situation is
different

Miloh: if mike is removed something else will inevitably come up that is
equally problematic

Quinn: that's why should not attach a person to an issue

[discussion of coolness of mike & his projects & knowledge]

Steen: we have accomplished a lot, just by talking this out.  more
discussion can happen but none necessary right now.  do we need to do
anything else, take any action?

(general agreement that we are done for now)




GSM stuff, Jake.
  we have a base station that needs a particular card which costs some
  money.  people gave him some money, not as NB but as individuals.  NB
  can have our own cell station, which we need to learn more about the
  legality of.  put up a big faraday cage to prevent signals exiting the
  premises?