[Noisebridge-discuss] Consensus and the "old ways".

[jim]

   i don't have the experience you've described below. 
recent meetings seem really well managed, with a 
definite lid put on extended ramblings. the tone of 
the meetings has been business-like, not hostile. i 
don't mind that people are passionate in expressing 
ideas, i like it. seems like people are generally 
invited to run meetings, take notes, take control: 
i haven't seen an example of hierarchical power. 


On Mon, 2009-10-05 at 18:23 -0700, Paul Boehm wrote:
> I felt much more comfortable at other Hackerspaces and Hacker
> Organizations i was involved with, that had voting. Voting didn't
> actually happen that much, and the whole process was much slimmer and
> streamlined, but i felt that everyone felt much more included.
> Noisebridge claims consensus, but feels really aggressive in it's
> decision making - to me it's process by attrition, with a lot of
> people not attending the meetings anymore.
> 
> Both at metalab and ccc, there was much less endless arguing, much
> less concealed aggression, and also a much more non-hierarchical
> distribution of power.
> 
> I really like noisebridge and the people there - a lot of my friends
> and cool projects are there, but I'm not coming to noisebridge
> meetings anymore, because i find the decision making process
> unbearable.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 1:18 PM, David Kelso <david at kelso.id.au> wrote:
> > Generally I keep out of these discussions, due to the vigor with which
> > they are fought.
> > I would just like to add a +1 to Crutcher's statements, specifically:
> >
> >> People don't always agree. Sometimes they stop fighting, if you yell at them
> >> enough. You haven't convinced them, you just beaten them down. I'd prefer a
> >> vote over the abuse. That's what I want changed.
> >
> > I'm not much of a fighter. There is a reason I don't turn up for
> > meetings any more. This conversation itself is a proof of how hard it
> > is to suggest a change without a lot of resistance.
> >
> > I would much prefer a voting system.
> >
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Shannon Lee <shannon at scatter.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> If you believe that dissent and discord are reasons to abandon a decision
> >>> making process, then I'm afraid that you're right, consensus isn't going to
> >>> make you happy.
> >>> The discordant yelling is part of the process.  It's how you know we're
> >>> actually talking about something people care about; it's how you know that
> >>> compromises are being cooked up.  I would be a lot more worried about the
> >>> state of our organization if this stuff wasn't being discussed to death.
> >>> I think that the kind of quick up-and-down votes you're talking about
> >>> would just serve to either (a) short-circuit the process of actually making
> >>> a group decision or (b) give he illusion of having made a decision when in
> >>> fact everything's still up in the air.
> >>> Back to my previous question, do you actually have something you want us
> >>> to do that's being prevented by the consensus process?  Or are you just
> >>> upset by the chaotic nature of it?
> >>> --S
> >>> On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Al Billings <albill at openbuddha.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> We've already got people bitching about this thread all over IRC and
> >>>> elsewhere so I'm officially giving up on this for 24 hours (at least).
> >>>>
> >>>> I would suggest that anyone who hasn't ALREADY replied on this topic
> >>>> and has an opinion should do so just for diversity and variety's sake.
> >>>> Otherwise, it's just five or so of us doing rounds.
> >>>>
> >>>> Al
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss mailing list
> >>>> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >>>> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Shannon Lee
> >>> (503) 539-3700
> >>>
> >>> "Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Crutcher Dunnavant <crutcher at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> Noisebridge-discuss at lists.noisebridge.net
> >> https://www.noisebridge.net/mailman/listinfo/noisebridge-discuss
> >>
> >>
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> >
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