[Noisebridge-discuss] Deep Crack

Thu Oct 8 06:02:55 UTC 2009

When I was a young engineer studying signal theory and data communications,
I was interested in cryptography.  Unfortunately, back when I was young,
there was no information available on the internet, because the internet was
still closed.  I wrote papers on it where I collected knowledge out of books
vastly out of date.  Out in Kansas, you just didn't have access to the
knowledge that you get on the coast, and back in the day, such knowledge was
scarce and precious.  I took a class on algebraic coding theory, but all
they covered was error control.  After I left the university (in 1991, if
you must know), what little information resources I had on cryptography were
lost.  I moved on to other things.

Now I see this opportunity before me and I'm wondering quite a lot to
myself.  What does this important artifact in the annals of cryptography
mean to me?  What knowledge can I (and others) glean from having it in the
space?  I am curious as to the design of the chip to make it more efficient
for cracking DES.  But touching chips with my hands doesn't help with that.
Technique would be interesting to know, but since this uses brute force
methods, it doesn't seem to be something that outstanding.  (Although

I'm right up there with everyone who's saying that it is a great honor
bestowed upon us that John Gilmore is willing to lend us this machine.  I
think it isn't that big a deal, if people are stepping up with donations to
support the cost, to figure out what that cost would be.  We are good at
that sort of thing.  I think it'd be fabulous to get more people excited and
raise expectations about cryptography (although I believe I'm more an "end
of an era" sort of person).

But I have to ask why?  Can someone who supports this give a clear
explanation to those of us not quite as enthralled with it what we would
actually do with it besides bring it to the space, talk about it a lot, turn
it on and watch it hum as it pounds away at some DES key someone found
lingering about.

Christie

---
Pigs can fly given sufficient thrust.
    - RFC 1925

On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Jacob Appelbaum <jacob at appelbaum.net>wrote:

> Hi *,
>
> I had a conversation with John Gilmore today about picking up Deep
> Crack. During our discussion, I asked John about donating the machine
> and about a receipt and so on. To my surprise, he isn't ready to
> transfer ownership of the machine to Noisebridge at this time. This
> outright solves any tax concerns, although such concerns would have been
> John's burden anyway (it's up to him to value the item, not us -- we
> just confirm that we received an item).
>
> I'm going to lead a time limited project involving Deep Crack. The goal
> of this project will be to understand the history of the politics
> surrounding DES, a study of the machine itself and we'll hopefully also
> actually crack some DES keys at some point during this project. I hope
> we can find something in the wild to crack (found ciphertext, is that
> like found art?) but I'm also happy to attempt to crack a specially
> crafted message just for the purposes of learning! I'm open to other
> topics and I think it's a good way for people to be introduced to
> attacking crypto systems. When I was younger, I was really inspired by
> the Cypherpunks movement and specifically by John's work. To have Deep
> Crack in our space is probably the greatest honor Noisebridge has received.
>
> Andy, Leif, Vlad and myself will meet with John tomorrow evening. We'll
> pick it up in Vlad's truck and we'll bring it to Noisebridge shortly
> after 6PM. If you'd like to help unload it and move it into the space,
> your physical labor would been very appreciated tomorrow evening!
>
> If we don't use Deep Crack, it's silly to have it around. If we're going
> to study and learn from it, it's apparent that it will be useful. If we
> do use and benefit from it, it will be apparent to everyone, and perhaps
> someday I would even have the guts to ask John for it on a permanent
> basis. I find it _really_ inspiring to imagine our space housing the
> fastest unclassified special purpose DES cracking machine in the world.
> After ten years, it's still the fastest (it's not the cheapest
> obviously)! I really want to emphasize something special about having
> this machine at Noisebridge over say, a museum: We're going to use it
> and we're going to learn from it! I firmly believe that it will inspire
> other people to learn about cryptography in a really serious way. I hope
> that someone who has no interest in cryptography can come and touch the
> machine, to see it run and to take part in our project. It doesn't
> belong in a museum yet. The battle over other weak crypto systems is
> _far_ from over. This machine is still useful and still relevant for
> todays systems! The current battle over GSM security seems relevant in
> some ways and very different in others.
>
> It appears that there is an interest from many people at and around
> Noisebridge. I'm really excited about this project and I think it's
> great that so many awesome people have expressed support. If you'd like
> to help, please let me know on the list or off the list! Perhaps we'll
> make a sublist about cryptography in general?
>
> From a legal perspective, I do not believe that being near the Deep
> Crack machine is going to pose a problem for non-US citizens. Deep Crack
> was famously run a number of times, it even won awards for these runs! I
> might add that it was quite the spectacle, so it wasn't simply
> unnoticed! I have stood next to a non-US citizen holding a part of the
> machine. As I understand it this is not a violation of ITAR in spirit or
> in the letter of the law. I'll talk with John about this tomorrow too.
> He has spent a long time fighting ITAR and is probably the best person
> on the planet to talk with about it.
>
> I do however believe that a non-US citizen should not attempt to run or
> use the machine. This issue will not preclude any such persons from
> _learning about the machine_ or its history.
>
> I will attempt to talk with the relevant legal minds at the EFF and
> until then, I ask that people who have a concern about their respective
> visa situation to not touch the machine. It seems clear to me that if
> you're not sure if you should touch such a system, please be reasonable
> and do not do so.
>
> Here's a nice link that can lead you to a lot information about Deep Crack:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFF_DES_cracker
>
> Best,
> Jake
>
>
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